When I first started I used to complain about russians but actually now I realise they are the best team mates because they very rarely give up. They may flame or cyka blyat a few times but they always try hard. I always think of Russians as being no compromise and tryhard and that is very good quality to have in a team mate.
As funny as this is, Russia has never been a colony. You could argue that it didn't have suzerainty during the Mongolian period but other than that it has never been anyones subject. Sure its been invaded a few times but none of these invasions were successful. I believe the reason why Russians are toxic is because its a terrible place to live. I would also be mad if I was born into a freezing hellscape with a horrible government, no welfare and terrible opportunities!
As funny as this is, Russia has never been a colony. You could argue that it didn't have suzerainty during the Mongolian period
so you do not respect Mongolian period? 240 years of being under Mongolian institutions is nothing? Mongolians build the Russian state (the origins of horrible government)... and then comes permaviolets and say they did not matter.
Also Iceland is even more horrible place to live by your description then, but i doubt they are that toxic
I'm pretty sure Icelanders originated from people escaping from the toxicity of the mainland.
o you do not respect Mongolian period? 240 years of being under Mongolian institutions is nothing? Mongolians build the Russian state (the origins of horrible government)... and then comes permaviolets and say they did not matter.This period of time ended 600 years ago. Russia’s current government has nothing to do with this time period. Also this period does not count as colonialism! The Mongols were not colonising Russian land they were tributising it. Big difference. The Russian people themselves were not living under mongolian institutions.
Also Iceland is even more horrible place to live by your description then, but i doubt they are that toxicIceland is warmer, prettier, has higher quality of life, and more equality and freedom of choice than Russia.
The Rus (vikings) from Roslagen Sweden actually conquered the land/states that today is Russia/Ukraine and built the Kievan rus kingdom.
But i wouldnt call it colonization when they actually integrated with the the tribes/people that lived in that area.
By your logic British people should be the most toxic?This is the reverse of his logic. Britain was a coloniser, he is saying that countries that are former colonies are toxic.
This period of time ended 600 years ago. Russia’s current government has nothing to do with this time period. Also this period does not count as colonialism! The Mongols were not colonising Russian land they were tributising it. Big difference. The Russian people themselves were not living under mongolian institutions.
any links or sources? I will back up my statement that russian institutions are decendants of mongolian institutions by this source:
https://books.google.de/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZFFuDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA195&dq=info:W8clANbXdjwJ:scholar.google.com&ots=JmR90UTE6X&sig=n60xsdy89cWu_ZOZ3R-jvIuwMMo&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false (Chapter 12 on Corruption in Russia) it summarizes the arguements and cites other sources if you are interested to go deeper
In short: you are wrong in thinking that russian current government has nothing to do with mogolian time period.
Iceland is warmer, prettier, has higher quality of life.
do you know that most of russian population does not live in siberia, right? And what do you mean prettier? Russian nature is amazing, it is the only thing that russians are proud of
and more equality and freedom of choice than Russia.
because they were not a colony
i heard that in mother russia,freedom has humans of choice and bears have the same equality as horses since putin rides them
any links or sources? I will back up my statement that russian institutions are decendants of mongolian institutions by this source:
https://books.google.de/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZFFuDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA195&dq=info:W8clANbXdjwJ:scholar.google.com&ots=JmR90UTE6X&sig=n60xsdy89cWu_ZOZ3R-jvIuwMMo&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false (Chapter 12 on Corruption in Russia) it summarizes the arguements and cites other sources if you are interested to go deeper
In short: you are wrong in thinking that russian current government has nothing to do with mogolian time period.
This is an interesting read, thanks. I still think its a stretch to associate much of what the Russian government does now with the Mongolian time period however. This is just generalised corruption which would occur in any country imo.
do you know that most of russian population does not live in siberia, right? And what do you mean prettier? Russian nature is amazing, it is the only thing that russians are proud of
Yes. I am not a retard. Something like 80% of russians live west of the urals but it doesnt change the fact that the place is still a freezing hellscape. Is it not sub zero in Moscow for 5 months a year? And I mean the whole of Iceland is like something from a oil painting. I have been there myself and it is the most beautiful country I have ever visited. Most of the population of Russia lives in the eastern euopean plain which is largely flat land as far as scenery goes.
parma, if you learn history you also learn that history tends to persist over time. Just look at the study that finds that hatred to Jews in 20th century is linked to hate towards Jews in 14th century, https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/127/3/1339/1922392
that is about the same time distance we are talking about in russia-mongolian case.
I do belive the region where these countries belong, their current economic/welfare status and religion are huge factors which determine the mental state of people and colonizations are a minor factor compared to those 3(even though colonization is kind of mixed with their current economic status since most of under-developed countries are ex-colonies)
^and yet there are really nice papers that say exactly that colonization is a major factor
see: https://economics.mit.edu/files/4127 "REVERSAL OF FORTUNE: GEOGRAPHY AND INSTITUTIONS IN THE MAKING OF THE MODERN WORLD INCOME DISTRIBUTION* "
Right let me formulate my argument in a different way:
Colonization caused backwardness in most of the cases with little to no progress for the colonized countries(economy related) but economic factor is one of the 3 main factors which, imo, affect someone's mental condition. There are also 2 other factors which are religion beliefs and the region/location of the country.
I LITERALLY GOT NO TIME TO WRITE ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES THIS BECAUSE I'VE GOT AN EXAM TOMORROW
nice MIT paper btw
Taken from the source of all human knowledge (Wikipedia):
"The interior consists of a plateau characterised by sand and lava fields, mountains, and glaciers, and many glacial rivers flow to the sea through the lowlands. Iceland is warmed by the Gulf Stream and has a temperate climate, despite a high latitude just outside the Arctic Circle. Its high latitude and marine influence keep summers chilly, with most of the archipelago having a tundra climate."
Not to say Iceland isn't a beautiful country, it is. You are just far too unfairly comparing it to Russia, where both are actually pretty similar...most of the land is shit, the population just chose to live in the spots where the weather was the best...because you know...common sense.
Kotato - I have a double major in math/history prior to my data analytics masters degree.
Nothing I have ever seen in my studies pertains to your theory.
You should know that other than factual events with their dates and localization, most of history is speculation -- unless there is written period evidence.
I'd say it has to do with:
- 70 years of Soviet rule that taught Russians that knowing who you can trust is the most valuable currency in a regime of that form ; you also need to know immediately who you can extend your trust to, which is why they're very no-nonsense/small talk. In Russia, you say things as you see them.
- 30 years of violent and repressive dictatorship under the rule of Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines, to which you apply the same logic aforementioned.
- In and out of similar regimes for over 50 years in Peru.
Too which, you add the fact that they have bad internet and that a lot of players pay by the hour in LAN cafes. They don't have time for your shit and would rather the game end faster if they believe it's a loss ; so they can start the next one.
Also anything pertaining to colonization is utter bullshit.
The Mayan/Inca/Aztec empires would still be regressive shit holes with or without foreign intervention -- the same applies to subsaharian countries.
You honestly believe South Africa would be a rich, flourishing, technologically advanced country without colonization?
The place wouldn't even have running water.
China proper had incredible evolution until they reached a period of stability, from where they slowly descended into irrelevance. Contestation and conflict were the driving force of innovation for the last 10000 years.
The economic and technological development of countries was furthered by colonization ; not the opposite.
PhD papers by equality loving hippies often see the world not as it is but as it could be if people had extended hands instead of "taking". These people fail to realize the caveats in their theories -- the strong will always take from the weak even if the means of pressure change over the centuries (armies/wealth etc) -- to have free men, you must have "slaves".
You honestly think you could enjoy your current lifestyle if there wasn't someone toiling away in a mine to extract the rare earths required for various electronic appliances, including the computer you're posting from?
That's either you being naive or ignorant or both.
The current economy driven world we live in is the product of peace achieved after centuries of conflict -- mainly due to the incredible advances in communication related fields and the fact that we're at a standstill because numerous countries have nuclear weapons.
Libya/Irak/Syria are very clear examples of what happens when you wish to be outside of this global trade network and you don't have a deterrent, which is why Pyongyang was rushing to get one these last few years.
Oh & if you try to pull out the idea that India and China had large portions of the world economy prior to colonization -- that's in a vacuum.
maybe these places would not be as advanced without colonization, but they wouldn't have suffered genocide. and they would become our allies once the west would help with their development.
oppression, either in personal life or country wise is a breeding ground for toxicity, at least feels that way.
Soviet regime, Ferdinand Marcos and "similar regime" in Peru are the outcomes of extractive colonial institutions of the past. (see "Why nations fail" Acemoglu and Robinson)
most of history is speculation -- unless there is written period evidence.
do you read what you write? Does it make sense to you?
Kotato - I have a double major in math/history prior to my data analytics masters degree.
do you have master degree in history? So far it sounds like you did not learn anything in your prior studies which could be relevant to this topic
I've read why Nations Fail. It's the furthest from a pundit I can think of.
You're failing to understand that a byproduct of a prior era isn't an established relationship. That's said in Why Nations Fail.
I suggest you fully understand material you put forth in an argument.
Colonial Extractive Institutions >> Current Extractive Institutions (such as the ones that prevailed in the aforementioned regimes)
causal relationship established in "The Colonial Origins of Comparative Development:
An Empirical Investigation" https://economics.mit.edu/files/4123
How more established you want the relationship to be?
PS so no master in history?
Nope. A BA -- didn't have time for a double.
You really should diversify your reading material.
^but data science master does not teach you much on the topic. Also why americans seem to think that having any master is an achievement?
How diverse material you talking about? You gave zero references
"You honestly think you could enjoy your current lifestyle if there wasn't someone toiling away in a mine to extract the rare earths required for various electronic appliances, including the computer you're posting from? "
wait,they arent using machines for this?
Illegal mining is still a thing in several countries. You can bet your ass they are not using fancy machines to extract minerals while keeping their activities hard to track.
isnt that terribly inefficient and bad at cost? where the hell are they doing those? in africa?
Isn't inefficient, Feach ; most of it is actual slave labor so it's 100% profit.
Africa mostly.
And Kotato, I'm French. Why assume a US diploma means I'm American?
Sure, I probably could have gotten a PhD in history or archeology and I'd be much happier though much poorer.
My father is a Historian though, he produces documentaries: https://www.worldcat.org/title/road-to-removal-the-cherokees-1800-1840/oclc/298125441
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying it's a huge stretch and that if your reference is a theoretical book written by an econ professor from MIT... You ain't got much. Any historian would probably laugh off his version of events despite it being a decent read, unless it's also his theory.
Don't forget the book is entirely predicated on a hypothesis that's been generally proven wrong.
Colonization gave the lion's share to Europeans, but colonized countries advanced leaps and bounds on about 200 levels, such as sanitation, government forms, peace, infrastructure, economy etc.
The idea that colonization did harm is basically considered a moral issue.
Eddie care to comment Russians, Peruvians, Filipinos? Caveat is that it must be colonization related.
why are brown people so full of themselfes and drag everyone down because they can't admit that they're not the center of everything and aren't capable taking real responsibility on anything whether in dota or outside? is it their low intellect?
Filipinos are toxic because of intense pride, mostly self-pride but there is also regional pride amongst our many islands and cultural divisions(see: Tagalog and Bisaya), and an underlying pride of the Philippines in general.
"sanitation, government forms, peace, infrastructure, economy etc."
I'd argue that only the latter 2 were brought by colonization...and even that's a stretch. Keep in mind I'm mostly talking about South America from here on out.
Sanitation: I really don't think either side was more sanitary than the other, maybe the Europeans were when they arrived to the Americas, but mostly out of learning from past experiences that tending to farm animals 24/7 (yes, that includes sleeping in the same places) and having piss-poor waste disposal methods were bad ideas and great ways to start new diseases.
Government forms: All the colonies were controlled by monarchies. That wasn't really that different from the governments already in place. Different forms of government came later.
Peace: ...yeah right...
Infrastructure: Well, colonizers did bring their building methods with them, but once again it's arguable that they were actually better than what was already in place. Sure, local civilizations really sucked at making multi-leveled buildings or even ceilings, but their buildings were (or rather are, since they still standing) pretty great at withstanding earthquakes and other local phenomena, like floods and landslides. They also were better at choosing good locations to live in to avoid said phenomena in the first place.
Economy: I'm not opening this can of worms. I'm just going to say local economies simply worked differently, it wasn't dependent on the concept of money.
I'd say that colonization's main contribution to mankind was the beginning of globalization, but I'm no expert on the subject.
i mean you gotta admit,doto brings the worst of you and i dont think its related where your ancestors got conquered in the past or not lol
where the heck are those slave labor things?
Turks, Brits, Germans are the worst. Russians are way better.Are you serious? Brits and Germans are some of the friendliest people in this game. I feel racist stereotyping entire countries and whatnot but in my experience the most toxic people in the EU servers are Turks, Iranians, Italians and Russians. People from the Balkans (Serbia, Romania, Bosnia.etc) are also quite often toxic. Friendliest people are usually Scandinavians, Germans and Dutch. British people get a bad rep in this game but honestly most of them are just being sarcastic or messing around with people and that gets mistaken for being outright toxic.
@parmav
I tend to agree, from my experience that the Arabic speaking areas on EU West have a real tendency to lose it and give up despite me trying to reassure them that the enemy will throw it (as they tend to do in this bracket).... For some reason i think they just hear the Scottish accent and assume i am being aggressive or insulting them...
I've actually had better luck with Russkis lately and i do really like their "never give up" mentality... except the ones that pick Pudge 100% of the time and couldnt hook a fish lying on a beach.... those ones can GTF.
Peace isn't something argued about in Africa. Sure SA is a slightly different narrative but colonization actually stopped tribal warfare for several hundred years.
Sanitation because Europeans actually cured diseases that were rampant and the infrastructure left behind included sewage disposal and treatment.
Subsaharian Africa if we're being precise.
a little summary on KiingeY:
1. Degree in data sciences at Cornel
2. French
3. Papa historian
4. Gives zero references
5. Lost the main topic in question somewhere after his first comment
6. reminds me a lot of my students who get surprised by their less-than-average grades
@Kotato : So according to your logic the people from Britiain should be Gods in dota , both behaviour score and skillwise?
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It is funny how people complain about 3 main regions/nations that spoil the fun in the game and are generally considered toxic to say the least. They are Peru, SEA-tards (applied to phillipino often but not exclusively) and Russia.
I suggest an explanation: all above mentioned regions were once an extractive colony, where the colonizers saw the only purpose of population is to bring gold/resources to their masters. Colonizers did not care about population and to keep the power they applied the strategy of divide and rule, imposing hatred and mistrust among the locals.
Divide and rule was based on making people think stereotypically and being TOXIC, and this practice was continued decades and ages later after the colony becoming a free state. Those countries are still governed on the main principle and population is nothing but a source of money for the elites, but notice: the toxicity is being cultivated even more effectively by degraded educational systems and mass propaganda.... and here we come: the origins of toxicity in dota 2 with respect to colonial past
PS for a back ground literature you can start with "Why Nations Fail" by Acemoglu and Robinson