the hero is super underpowered, he lacks everything. terrible hero, don't use him
source: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/145989100/matches?hero=arc-warden
Basically, you are saying a hero that has low farming capabilities, low stats, and one of the skill based heroes, should be removed from the game? He already got nerfed HARD. So they should remove Meepo because he destroys you with 22 mins BoT, Dag, DL, and Aghs?
#Cookie, every game almost exactly the same build and order. Winning almost all of games. Hero mb not strong but with this build he almost solo kill anyone or split push safer than anyone with illusion. This is going to be like Badman's spectre i'm telling you. Every single year TI prize pool got higher and higher except TI6. Why? Bc mostly a retard spec build make ppl stop playing dota . Even i haven't play it like 2-3 months. I love this game and i just want it keep playable.
#Farix, Dealing with meepo is not easy but nor too hard. He is very good in some hands but if meepo try to kill u, u can turn it around and focusing with 1 of them u basically can kill him. I mean it has risk u can die while trying to make plays with meepo. But in arc warden he just tp in creep wave, use sb or even silver edge, bloodthorn, spells and hitting with mjolnir means u r dead. If u r not and escape then he lose simply nothing. Just a 30 sec cd ulti. Dude this is op. And hero is super easy to play bc u just dont die. Get midas then farm, split push until u have 2-3 items. Then u solo kill almost anyone with an illusion.
Hero need to be like better stats, more armor, mb better spells but at least +120 sec ulti cd and only 5-6 or 9-10 sec duration on that illusion. Just make it a normal hero. Just dont allow him afk jungling while his illusion killing enemy sups or even mid. OR again im saying more and more ppl who loves this game gonna play other games.
Umm guys he didn't get nerfed, please know that, why do you think his winrate went up a lot after the soo called "NERF"
Ayase, its like mmr boosting. U gonna lose those mmrs eventually even if not i just dont wanna make other players hate game.
CL1B, what if ur team already has a mid laner or he just last pick arc warden. Dealing with him especially hard in pubs bc ppl cant coordinate. Someone just dont care, someone just dont wanna play storm, someone underestimate his power so dont pressure him early etc. This is gonna be pubs nightmare and almost all u can do is banning him or just hope noone picks.
His 3rd skill is also op imo. If u mid with arc then u have like 4 sec cd and 50 sec duration on scan which can even detect invis ppl. U even dont need wards. U r super safe so pressuring him early isnt easy. Actually other skills are also kinda strong. 6 sec %50 slow is pretty good. Arguably better then venomancer's slow. Magnetize is also pretty good at def hg or sieging. Actually only con he has is lowish stats and low stat gaining. He definetly need nerf especially on ulti. At least make it like cant use items just half-strong double cd spells etc.
PA rapes Arc Warden, all he can do is force staff away.
Rush BKB and he is dead everytime u catch him alone split pushing.
in late game arc will beat pa tho, so u have to shut him down early and end
CL1B problem is that he can even just sit in base and spam ulti. U almost never see arc warden pushing lane himself he send his illusion. And in his field he just make u miss. He can even tp out right there
Arc should always push with his real hero as well unless entire enemy team is missing, which they wont be because they ahve to DEF towers because he split pushes.
staying in base makes u farm / push much slower
@Sir.Swirl It is still a nerf, however the playstyle that rose from some of his buffs is really good.
@Bazenbelkioysa Arc Warden is usually banned for me now in my ranks and yes, I'm admitting that he has a 4 sec duration scan, pressuring him is hard because he basically kills both of you in the lane when you try to gank him and if three people ganks him, he can easily escape and heal via bottle/salve/clarity the guy. He is like Spectre as you said. But he shits on everyone on early game, not late game. At late game there are better carries that can handle an Arc Warden. Slark, PA, and PL. He is strong on late game but he isn't like Spectre at that point.
EXPLAIN THIS YOU FUCKING RETARED
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/141242050
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2584411358
You want to remove a hero which need good micro skill and hard to farm, when no one pick him WOW LoL player detected go back to the EZ game kid (and i don't remember spectre being OP)wow it player like this that made me sooooo mad low skill so force Hight skilled hero to be gone when they had already been neft to the ground FUCK
Dasmm this retared are not even playing Dota2 we got more player and prize pool IT6 it 20000000 hightest of all years wow please leave dammm.
Damm i Can't read or stand this thread ARC EZ TO PLAY ARC EZ TO PLAY THEN GO PLAY HIM YOU FUCKING RETARED FUCK LET SEE HOW YOU DO
I GIVE UP THIS GUY DON"T EVEN FUCKING READ THE CHANGE LOG
3rd skill no longer miss inside but only acttack coming from outside the filed
Unti only had 30 seccond life span so can't push well, and a set of Cooldown item of his own
NO one even used fountain Arc tactic when there are no Divide anymore
How the fuck can Arc farm both BOT and All that expensive item if it not 50 min in game if you still got kill that it on you so don't fucking blame him 30 sec Double you kidding you call that a lot if it is 120 unti sooldown and only 5-6 seccond that not even enought to fight in teamfight or to even teleport WTF are you thinking you want him to be useless FUCKING 120 sec CD for 5-6 unti when you still had a hard time on Arc already this guy it being own by an pro Arc player and he want to made the hero useless because he can't fucking play hero that it not EZ go back to lOl KID I AND MY FELLOW ARC PLAYER FEEL REALLY OFFENDED BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD YOU SHOULD REALLY CONSIDER DELETING IT .
Yeah, this thread is like "TIMBERSAW IS OP OMGG" kind of thread, but can we all just learn that every hero has their weaknesses?
Capt. Strike, dude u play in normal skill and arc warden has such a low win rate in there bc u guys r not good at micro. But as skill lvl goes higher there are more ppl has micro skills. Dude we even have a hero called Chen which needs super micro management and there are insane chen players. So its easy to play in higher levels of dota and this is why he has %57.29 win rate. And he is 2nd just like in 4-5k bracket. This win rate is acutally more than spectre's as i remember.
CL1B, i said he can even stay at base, not neccessarily. He ofc dont stay afk in fountain. As u said if enemy team all miss he can just punish them by sitting in base while pushing side lanes with 30 sec cd ulti. And his itemization and early game progress makes him better than almost every carry.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2590537261
Check this one for example. I tried to ban him. Volvo happened and enemy team picked him. I told my farmer guy to pick pa as u said. I know i was pretty bad and tilted at this but even in late game he send illusion to pa. Used bloodthorn, started to hit and pa used bkb to survive. Btw they were sieging us. When pa's bkb cd he send another illusion and killed pa right there. So even in late game he got pa. U might say he feeded in early game, huge net worth difference etc but we cant even deal with his illusion. many times ds used greaves to make us survive.
Btw it was mirana vs arc warden mid. Mirana died and asked "help". End up muting each other. But even if we try to tp in and help we dont have any defensive sup so couldn't save mirana. And his 4 sec broken shit spel is just dispelling my bloodlust. I was completely useless. In fights pa has like only 1-2 hit with my bloodlust then that broken shit spell comes and dispells it. And there is another thing: sven is easy to kite, pa-pl and slark are kitable but u cant kite arc warden. He is the one eho kites them with bloodthorn, slows or even double hex. What can a pa or sven with 5 sec bkb do against double hex? And its easy to make them have 5 sec bkbs
Oh yeah try to played him before man you see not all of us appreciate the word ez hero when no one esle pick him i haven't even fight agisnt Arc and see my new game i got own by carry drow
His skill don't scale up late game the purde it the only thing worth something that timwe you want him to had to be super depend on item then he already it ??????????????????????????????/
Please read this guy post he get what i am trying to said ^ Absolutely disagree, unless you're confident with micro heroes then DO NOT play arc or meepo. Arc and Meepo have two modes high, or no impact. If you play these heroes without the skill to do so you'll just be not just a burden, but will be hogging resource and space that is better placed with a carry that knows what he's doing.
Axe shits on arc warden if ur team is paying attention, Blink > Call > Blade mail > Arc warden cant do shit
See this http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2590266931 does this look like OP to you ??????????????????????
Capt. Strike, its ok if u dont good at micro. U can always improve yourself. What im trying to say is even if you good at micro and if you go for Chen, visage, beast, meepo etc. its not auto win. All those heroes having ok win rates. But arc warden has insanely high win rate. %57 in +5k bracket is like huge. And tells us even high skill players and pros coulnd't find a good solution against him.
CL1B, it looks good on paper but in practice its not easy to coordinate with your team and its just so unlikely u call him every time in fights. 1-2 calls and he gonna play smarter.
u as a 4k player being unable to handle aa certian hero doesnt necesarilly mean the hero itself is particularly strong
omniknight has higher winrate and higher pickrate
bloodstone on nyx has above 80% winrate
are these things op?
Finally someone to back me up ty triple i really appreciate you post man
@Bazenbelkioysa does this look like bad micro to you if it is please tell me how to improve 2 days ago http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2584411358
Omni had higher winrate than spectre in 6.86. Wasn't spec op?
Just like Badman's spec ppl going for almost same build for arc warden. I'm telling you this guy is annoyingly hard to play against and this makes ppl stop playing dota. I'm just warning.
yea arc spark wraith is too op 4 sec cooldown and it even purge ....with flux its just too terible to describe...u cant even try to gank him ..
ive seen many arc warden players lose in my 5k+ matches, in fact i haven't seen one win yet.
If you run a dual lane mid, arc warden CANNOT KILL your mid AT ALL, and if you deny him farm early game, or even gank him, he is beyond useless with his shitty right click.
Get some wave clear, get some good team fight spells, and you should win the game.
He excels in solo pick offs, and split pushing.
Wave clear + Team fight spells = Arc Warden useless.
Pick Sven and Arc warden will feed u tons of gold, u see him, blink stun ult > arc dead
Axe shits on this hero so bad if you are all grouped up
SLARK Can shit on this hero,
Timber can shit on this hero
Beast master can shit on this hero
Come on dude.
CL1B YES dammmit that what i am trying to said here you seen that not even said AM or Pa they stun me i could be dead but dammm why it is so hard for you people to get face it Arc it no more OP then any of them and LC and VOID can solo kill me ez if i get pick OFF can we end this now
Omni had higher winrate than spectre in 6.86. Wasn't spec op?
so oyu are implying that since spec had lower winrate than omni back then, and was op, it means that all the heroes with winrate lower than omniknight are op?
Maybe we should give bazen a chance to prove his point and show us a gorgeous 100-arc-games-winstreak? Hey, bazen, 10k awaiting (btw, this 'I dont want other players to suffer from my beyond godlike arc' is total bullshit, bcs there are so many nastier things in dota like RTZ and Miracle playing with their stacks in 4k mmr pubs)
TripleSteal good manipulating dude, keep it doing it.
CL1B, problem with arc warden is most of time you dont see real arc warden. So you cant just jump on him if u r not superior at vision which is hard to have. Sitiation is like badman spectre. When you jump on him if u cant burst him he just use dagger into woods. And it was pretty hard to burst him and chasing was even harder. In arc warden u dont even see real him on map most of time. If he pushes side lanes with 4 sec broken scan spel he just blinks and tp outs. And this prolly cost you at least 2-3 man gank for nothing. He create space, good at early game, good at ganks, good at 1v1, good at split push, good at sieging and def hg. All this in one hero. And he is doing this super safe. This is broken
DelCredere, it doesnt make hero less broken if i cant play him. And hero is broken. Just as spectre was in 6.86 or 85 idk. Theoretically u could stop spectre and win game but he ended up like &56 wr at +5k, and even more at lower brackets as i remember. And pick rate was like %50 before all pick ban came out. Same story awaits us just saying..
so,
1) i say that u r not competent in judging whether hero is op or not
2) u do not argue about that (thanks) and offer me stats to prove ur point
3) i tell u this satts are shit, using other shitty stats as an example, cz they are obviously meaningless
4) u tell me im wrong cz some other stats from the samer source do not represent any real things, too
thats exactly what i said, tho, am i wrong? u cant rely on the winrate statistics from Meta tab.
You see those stats in your games. Spec was winning most of games i played. Either in my team or in enemy. Now arc warden is winning my games again cz we almost never see real him and his illusion is always killing us. It was heros skills + a certain way of play and build makes spec too op. Now its arc wardens skills and a certain way of play + build makes him too op.
everyone saying arc warden is an op hero without spamming him and knowing how hard it is to pull off is just an idiot to me.
Its like crying around ricky needs a nerf if u can just destoy him early by buying sentrys. Or saying invoker is op but too hard for me to play?! Cmon guys hes an extremely squishy hero with 0 stats that fuly relys on midas mollinjir timing and teamplay to be effective.
If I play a game with friends from 3K mmr and I play Earth Spirit. I completely break them - even though I'm absolutely trash at ES and have approx 10 games. Why? Because hero is OP AF? No... because people can't handle it, they don't know the hero and its potential. Knowledge is power and if you know a lot, you become better at the game. You can counter an Arc from any position. Also I don't see Arc in every pub game above 5K so I don't understand this end of the world propaganda.
TL;DR: Everything is relative - Maybe you shouldn't bring a knife to a gunfight ;)
The biggest problems with Arc Warden and everyone that counters him, is that he can basically sit in some trees while there is a team fight and use his clone. its up for 16 and down for only 14. So you basically have the clone up all team fight.
Frostie, i dont get why ppl say "he is hard to play". Does it an excuse to be an op hero? Cm is one of the easiest heroes so does she be like super bad? Should it be like if a hero is hard to play than it must be strong, if it is easy to play he must be worst hero in game like worst nuke damage or right click damage, long cd, not enough disables etc. Its not about being hard or easy to play. Its about being op or not.
KS.Zen, i did complain about spectre in this forum and some +5k ppl came and said almost same things with you. You can rekt 3k players with whatever hero bc u r just better player than him. Your rotations, last hit skills, map avareness etc. just much better then them. I did same with 2k players. But this is not the case. I play with ppl who are not better nor worse than me. We have similiar mmr and when they pick arc warden and we cant just win.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2590537261
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2589029526
In these 2 matches i played against an arc warden. Sd in both games and axe-pud are same ppl and they are friends. In both games they played like same level and kinda good dota. Sd was better than axe-pud guy and both games i had questionable performances i admit it. They had 1loss and 1 win and i had 2L bc in both games i played against aw but they had aw 1 time and they win. I mean sd guy, his friend and me are kinda same level at dota. And aw players in both games should be similiar level with us. But aw win both games with different players and we were like how u can even deal with this? Bc he is same level with us has same mmr. Our game senses similiar, map avareness and etc. but he just sit in trees and killed us with an illusion.
And there is another thing +5k players like %1 of total players i guess. at most i would say %5. So not everyone knows how to deal with some heroes, some situations altough their opponents supposed to dont know those situations and heroes most of times bc everyone plays with ppl that has similiar skill in the game. So we just wanna enjoy the game. Not everyone wants to be a professional player. We just love the game. But if there is an op hero makes game unplayable, unwinnable and not enjoying to others is just something i dont wanna see. So again this is gonna become badman's spectre and destroy pubs. Ppl gonna stop playing this game and look for something else to play.
AW fails dramatically vs heroes with minions/illusions/gap-closing abilities
U r welcome
Sir.Swirl, exactly dude. Always has illusion in team fights and this is op. Even ck or spec does not have such ability.
I watched a +6k game tonight where a guy named Velone playing aw killed et and mirana with his spark wraiths. I was wtf, this skill itself almost better than techies. Bc u can guess or see where tech plant mines and u can remove them. And techies has very close mine range where spark wraith mb in top ten in terms of long cast range. And u most of times dont get any exp or gold and spend too much time while planting mines. on the other hand arc warden can cast 6 times of that broken spel in 10 sec while having his farm. A broken fucking spell arguably stornger than a hero!
Larry i dont see how. He can farm those minions and his illusion is the best in game. I mean there is no other illusion can use both spells and items. And with mjolnir i think other illusions get rekt by aw's. Gap closing is good but problem is in team fights he stays behind supports while his illusion doing some serious work. Its like he is helping his illusion but it supposed to be other way.
Larry, if you talk about like ld or lycan, problem is even bigger. Ld and lycan are not in their best shape. Its been a long time last time i saw them in my games.
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Last time i remember spectre was super strong with a specific build. And many of my friends just stop playing dota and start playing lol. It has like +%55 win rate and almost %40 pick rate or even more. Now there is arc warden with midas-bloodthron-sb-mjolnir etc. build has very high win rate and decent pick rate in pubs. I play this game for fun, i watch ti for fun. I DONT CARE which hero havent pick in ti. I do care about my pubs. So right now arc warden is super strong and need nerf or compelete removal. OR more and more ppl gonna play that game instead of dota.