General DiscussionHELP US!! CONSIDERING UNINSTALL WHOLE TEAM !!

U seem to be really new to the game
I advise you to play and learn the game more

Stick to one role, if you keep swapping roles over and over again, you wont accomplish anything. Sure it's fine to determine what role your most comfortable with, but if you keep doing it, well you and your teammates wont be good at any role/position at all.
but like what inx4c said, play more games and learn, glhf

inx4c -> This is the best advice you could come up with? .. Come on ..
That is like saying keep on trying son, the things you do where you go to the hospital
is the things you should not do.

Omni needs a soul ring to come online lol. Not a late game. Your games last long cos u dont know how to win.

There was once a topic about a 2k guy with 10.000 games. xd Number of games =\= skill

Pls tell me this whole thread is a Joke? You play only in Stack and lose vs normal skill? Man Do you even know what your talking about????

I have about 4.3k matches

Sorry but you are a bunch of lowskilled players. You shouldn't play competitive dota to begin with. Also, your omniknight player is an account buyer.

The only thing that can semi help you is getting a coach.

This is refreshing. Someone asking advice for an entire dog shit team as opposed to the usual solo dog shit player.

For a start can u give us some idea of the skill rating each player plays at?

U didn't really tell us much. Like wat is the skill difference in team. Number of games mean jack shit.

Also, play solo games once in a while to practice n improve as an individual. Don't play exclusively in party.

Keep up with the meta, and having a small hero pool is bad, Practice other heroes, go for simple drafts like mid ta, offlane slardar, dazzle(5th), 4(es), pa/jug.

They are 2k avg with 1 account buyer who has 4kish mmr.

oh this is the most important piece of advice, i can give you, "git gud"

Wow guys the tone is really kinda "fuck off dude" :-(
No, were not pros - i NEVER said that.

Tasaina - thx, a good point really, everything really went worse when we started to do rotate..
Lex, Assasine - didnt help much.. you just flamed guys
inx4c so you have smurf accounts ..? Thats just sad..
Techies.. yeah sure we are.. Account buyer.. LOL where did you come up with that..? this really got me laughing..
Jacked.. ok.. one about 4K, 3 just about 2,3K, speed gets <2K i suppose. Ok - so you say forget team and go solo
Yeah, this could be a way to go for individual raise in winrate, but wont change our team situation.
Annuit - yeah we know that the small hero pool is a risc.. The simple draft is what we are trying to do hence the time we got.
(All of us got a job to take care of.) but that is the two opposite things.. Practicing the same simple draft means a small hero pool.

Ok now seriously if you cant win against normal skill guys as a 5 man Stack theres nothing we can help you with. Either Deal with it and play for the fun or you must be ready to Put more time / effort into dota.

U tell inx4c who is 5k+ mmr that he has less games than your friend like in means anything, so u deserve the flame.

U say that omni comes online later what is a total bullshiet, cos he can just ran at people's faces as long as he gets his soul ring.

Your games last long cos your team is just bad, and dont know how to use your advantage. This is a common problem for 2k mmr players.

In addition u have negative win rate <50%.
And now u edited your post cos u found out how stupid it was.

Only advice is to play solo, party does not make u improve that much. Also have more humility. If u agree u suck at dota, u will improve.

Hey there, I'm not really a pro but I'll try my best to give you some advice.
1.) Both PA and Sven work much more effectively if they snowball to victory rather than farm until the lategame. This is because PA can easily be countered by enemy carries that have farmed MKB while Sven can be shutdown easily once his BKB is down with disables (or Scythe of Vyse which supports probably already have by lategame).
2.) Like Lex said, Omni is a support that can wreck the living shit out of people once he gets an arcane boots and a soul ring... Exploit that advantage!
3.) You should really learn to adjust to the current meta because heroes will fall off and rise up again no matter what... Learn to adapt!

Play hours =/= skill btw
I've seen enough people who have higher play hour than their MMR
Tbh playing too much party games is bad for skill improvement, especially if you guys are quite now to the game
Unless you only care about having fun, then go ahead
If you care about improving in DOTA2, ask a REAL 4k player to coach you or your team
Or just tell the rest of your team to play solo MMR so they learn to become independent and reliable players
If you keep playing on your comfort zone, you'll improve way slower
But hey, we have solo MMR!
Shithole where you get 4 retards on your team pretty much every game which will build your skill up nicely if you keep playing it
As long as you're aware of your mistakes (its harder to notice on your own, hence why I said a coach would be nice) you'll improve in DOTA2

In summary, you guys just need a more versatile hero pool and learn to take advantage of your strengths (being hyper-agressive against the enemy once it reaches midgame)

Yo. Reason why u need to play with different ppl is so u can discover more about yourself, and discover different play styles of different players, different combos rather than being stuck with one dynamic. If ur team isn't versatile enough to adapt to the meta u will lose hard. That's also the case when u have different skill level in the team u r forced into a position u may not be best at, like support, and u have no choice because u r the worse player in ur team.

It's not about win rate. It's about actually improving

Git gud or CONSIDERING UNINSTALL WHOLE TEAM

Whole problem is in your 4.8 k guy. He should be able to carry every game for your team solo on Normal Skill. He is probably an account buyer, got his acc booster, or got 4.8 k by playing omniknight only.

If he got 4.8 k by playin omniknight - he is pure trash !! Copy paste and send this post to him.

Problem is he doesnt play any other hero well and omni is the eziest hero in game to play with. He literally got carried into 4.8k. In addition games are based on avg mmr between players, so if he has 4k party - he makes the game more difficult for the others in your team hence enemies play better than you and your 2k friends. They may be 3k solo then or more, while most of u are 2k and dont know how to play dota.

NOW THIS IS 5K MMR CARRY PLAYER PLAYING ON NORMAL SKILL

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/326685340

Show this to your 4.8 k omnifckin player how your games should look like in normal skill.

u just gave the smurf a big bag of Attention

https://dotacoach.org/Bogdan I can help you

@lex, after reading what you said, now im rethinking about spamming omni to get climb mmr xD
but yeah what oldman lex said is true, A real 4.8 player should be able to carry anygame in normal skill whether he plays support,mid,offlane, or carry. And additional advice to op, you should focus on your own individual skill first, playing with your friends/team is fine, but if you truly want to "git gud", you should become a solo rank warrior
@strongmind, shameless self-plug lmao

1400 games 800 omni.
GG 4.8k my whole live is a lie.

I'm sure only 10% of his omni games the enemy actually bought diffusal lol

Hahaha and now ur freind is not of much help since omni has been nerfed so he will have some issues anyways :D

Thx guys i'm sucking advice and we are starting to get some wise words on the table :-)

A general point is set: We should go for more solo games to generally improve.
- I will, and I will recommend my mates, especially "Speed" who sits on 230 games almost only party.

"If he got 4.8 k by playin omniknight " yeah you bet he did :-)
- I too think that this could be one of our issues, he dosen't live up to the difference (anymore!) that his MMR does.
He does know what to do, and when to do it though.

Q: What do you guys think about giving him the role from now as our main core ? Or are we better of that I just go for this - he is a skilled support ill give him that credit, but not a skilled carry -> i mean if we both should aim for something, wouldnt it be better if i go for the role if we are both "new" to this? So he still focuses on getting better at the support role, which he excells at?

Q2: Current meta - agree, we have to adapt at some point i still think that you should take care on this decision, the heroes differ so much ( that is just my own experience ), so if you go for a really different one, its a whole new style to learn to play - am I wrong at this..? ( meaning if youre good with a hero or two, choosing a new will take a lot of time to learn before youre up and running good again )

Q3: The principle to always go with "a standard" draft for a team - is this a no go, seriously everybody got a couple of heroes they excell at in specific periods dont they? for me it looks like even the pros eventually go for some standard drafts with some counter adjustments ?

Q4: Do you guys think that our draft could still work? If we said : Zeus, Omni, PA, Kunkka, Treant OR Sniper, Drow, Warlock, Silencer, Axe what would you choose, change ?

Q2: better to learn a role. spam the meta heroes for that meta, but when it changes, change a long with it. since u are still in the same role, not much should change except small hero specific things. if u played sven ur whole life, shouldnt be too hard to change to other melee carry heroes. wouldnt be vastly different. u still know how to last hit, farming patterns, etc.

Q3. the thing about playing with the same party is that it is easy for ur draft to go stale really fast. look at alliance.

As long as ur team its better to have a decent decided draft which suits ur team thats answer to Q3.
Ans to Q4 is that the heroes which i stated have received a great nerf such as kunka and omni which will not help u much in this meta.
I suggest u give ur freind with 230 games tidy to play since that is a hero with a little communication in team can do wonders :).
Q.2 yes since most of ur team has players not playing dota for a large amt of time ot will take time to adapt sply when u have won so many games with the old line up.
So i suggest u practice in unranked first with different lineups and combos and set up roles for each of ur players and do no change it regurarly stick to it.
I cant answer Q1 coz iam not sure about ur freind with other heroes since he has just played omni and he needs a ton lot of practice.
NoTE: all being harsh here on thier advice coz all pissed of with 4.8 k guy who cant play any othet hero well other than omni.

Q1: Let him play what he excels at, like I said, stop swapping roles.
Q4: Zeus mid, Pa/sven carry, Tide/sk off, warlock(4th), omni(5th). Try that, should be good imho.
as for Q2 and Q3. what jacked said

Q1: Let people get their comfort roles. Switching roles will fuck shits up too much
Q2: having broader array of heroes doesn't mean different playstyles, try to expand your teams' hero pool to more standard/flexible heroes
Q3: Stagnation in picks will only make your team more predictable, standard drafts are usually go-to, unless you are VERY sure about your skills can compensate for it
Q4: Some of those heroes are dead right now, but if those picks works for you, why not? 2k doesn't play meta anyway

my smurf accounts are more or less same mmr as main, whats so sad about it?

here's my advice:

dont start a serious team until all of you can play properly without having to play with each other (aka solo queue). this is from personal experience

1-2 years ago i used to solely play PARTY RANKED with my friends under the illusion of making a decent team with the initial goal of winning online amateur leagues. thinking back, all of these are pretty stupid and wishful thinking on our part

so yeah, we got to a point when we were winning a lot of party ranked games; till it came to the point when we wouldnt play AT ALL unless we were all gathered up

then here comes the problem: theres a significant mmr difference between the players. last year, i was around 2800. 4 other people were mid-high 2kers, but we had two 4kers. the two 4kers would win us a SHIT TON of games, even though we 2kers werent even trying. we didnt even have to play our best; all we had to do was to not feed and we'd win no questions asked. me and the other 2kers got to 3k party solely through this. i knew back then that i didnt deserve my 3k mmr; later on when our 4kers went inactive my mmr dropped considerably lower; i wasnt playing at 3k level for sure at the time since i cant even carry 2k shitters. not only that, but i was forced to play solo, and then both my solo and party mmr were consistently dropping (this was around january to april 2015 if you look at my matches)

the problem is that: we were used to playing "relying" on people to win us games. it took us especially me a long time to finally realize this, that i have to stop queueing with them to get better. i am NOT getting better by playing in a "team" where the only teamwork we have is to ensure we dont do stupid shit so that our 4kers can destroy the enemy. i realized i had to know how to win games on my own and be able to perform better than most in my games consistently if i want to climb the ladder. this forced me to learn and explore new stuff that would help me not lose games which i wouldnt even care about before because i was winning with my "team" anyway

ever since then i have been climbing consistently, just this past 3 months ive been able to climb from 2700 to 3096 even with party games with 2k friends in between (it wasnt until last month that i play soloqueue). i havent been queueing with my 4k friends since then but even so im sure thay im way, way better than what i was when i used to queue with them

TLDR: dont start a team yet; focus on improving your individual skills first so that you can actually create a strong team. dont rush things

for example your guy who cant solo/roam

that guy will NEVER learn how to play in a solo lane or roaming role because there is no drive pushing him to learn them. i bet he's thinking "hey, we're winning games anyway so we have to do this consistently" but that is the WRONG way of thinking. he'll never improve in dota in general if you just let him win games without him ever knowing the burden of carrying a team singlehandedly or to a lesser extent have a high enough impact ALL THROUGHOUT THE GAME (not just one part where for example he lands a big ult that wins you an otherwise lost game)

and the only way to know this burden, if he's not playing with people better than him

contrary to typical fighting games, i think playing with better people can be detrimental to you because if youre playing with them, it makes you focus more on them and focus less on your mistakes, and your goal fixates to winning more than improving

A lot of good advice. Thx.

A very good comment with your experience.

Now then, for the almost not existing party-matches from now :-), please help me suggesting the
best draft for us for this meta - we could pick from the heroes we do know by now:

(First hero is most playes and so on)

Mid-guy: Zeus, Sniper, Tiny, Mirana, DeathProphet, SpiritBreaker, SkywrathM, StormSpirit, OD, Clinks, Visage, Lina, TA, Viper
Safelane-core: PA, Juggernaut, Sven, Huskar, Tusk, Lycan, OD, NightStalker, CK, Ursa, SB.
Safelane-support: !!Omni (by far)!!, Disruptor, VengefulSp, ShadowShaman, Necrophos, WitchDoc
Offlane-core: Kunkka, Silencer, SpiritBreaker, LegionCommander, FacelessVoid, QOP, DarkSeer, Viper, AncientA, Centaur, DragonK, Naga, Luna, Enchantress, BeastMaster, Phoenix
Offlane-2nd: Treant, WitchDoc, Warlock, Necrophos(33% win), Axe(As "bait"), Underlord, Windranger

The 2.nd offlane is actually free choice hence he has so low winrate. Think of a good hero just not to die with, Treant was good, Skywrath was really bad..

Well.. Many good poster here already give many good advice..

So I just will add 1 or 2 things..

I believe raising your team solo mmr until the difference between the players is 1k at max is a good thing..
Because the struggle to play with someone that have more 2k mmr difference is really frustating.(you will understand this when you go up or now you try to play with 3 digits mmr)..

Rotating is good, it makes your player in your team know what things make a role "hard" to play and make your team coordinate better..

Sometimes its just normal team problem, when the team morale is not high, and deep inside someone blame someone, but still try to play together.. Maybe take a rest and play with other people first for "change of scenery"..

That's why making a team harder than it seems..
Assembling good players is hard, let alone make a good team..

Gl with your team..
It's a phase any team would face..
Will try to give more valuable advice if I know something still didn't add in this topic..

You guys say all of that there...

Here, i never win even with omni before nerf.

"Perma 2k" kind of live has choose me.

the amount of games played as well as hours spent in game mean jack shit, the only relevant measure of one's skill is mmr (not talking about high tier comp dota here).
what u cal "team" is a stack, not an actual team. dont take it serious.

it doesnt make sense for you to stick to one role so far, and it will remain the same for at least couple of years. play the heroes you like, and then some day you'll figure out where your place is. right now, u just dont have enough experience to choose a role and only play a limited amount of heroes that suit it.

If you all don't have the time and energy to actually improve at the game in first place, don't even think about things you just wrote and as Triple said it's not team it's stack, learn the difference please...

1. spirit breaker is a good hero to new player to learn about focusing at map and timing war
2. wraith king is a good core safelane to a new player, dagger and armlet is so good when you play with your friends
3. do not focus on meta patch, its always become a distraction to a new player, better play what the team need most
4. know your hero, learn your hero, watch your replay why you lose or why you win.
5. play more dota is not a way out when you don't have the will of change, introspection, and synergy
6. i play 1.4k once to 4k. the problem at 2k and 3k is that we dont have synergy and good map control, and everybody like wasting time to blame each when we lose 4-6 tower, me said: high ground is the key! i repeat high ground is the key! don't lost your cool, stay cool,
thats it, just stay cool

Stick to your roles but learn new heroes, watch pro player replays in their perspectives, watch/read guides, if you really want you can have someone coach you guys. It might be good as well if one of you learn how to roam (the second offlaner for example) and have the "core offlaner" learn how to create space, survive alone in the offlane and be independent, so that you can help out your mid/ruin te enemy mid's life, and so that the offlaner can get levels faster than when you dual lane