Well, personnally, i looked at this page:
http://www.dotabuff.com/esports/leagues/4664/matches?date=&hero=terrorblade&duration=®ion=
if you exclude vega versus escape (2nd game in the list)
And eventually tnc versus orange (10th game in the list)
Then every single game of the page is just a fucking big outpick when tb win.
If tb gives the win, it's not due to its own streng, it's rather the "fear" he causes which lead to clumsy pick to try to deal with him.
Edit: I didn't checked everything, but did void + tb lose a single game when together ? Cause this duo seems the most crazy
People are gonna start calling Terrorblade OP just because pro players have started picking him 4Head
Tbh, the hero hasn't changed so much. He's the same hero as he was a patch, or two, or even three back. The biggest change imo is his armour buff.
You forget about some global and item changes that affect the hero. Dragon lance is enormous on Terrorblade as of now, and he's a little tankier than he used to be as well.
It's a series of buffs: reflection damage, armor, metamorphosis BAT, illusion damage taken, illusion duration.
Dragon lance was great when it's +15 str and agi, the -1 attributes for 10 range change hit it a fair bit.
terrorblades insanely storng because of how early he comes online. hes one of the strongest safelaners in the game, forces people to jungle, pushes the tower anytime, can immediately go to a sidelane or midlane and push
expect to see a lot more of him, he is broken.
honestly i think tb is a pretty strong hero now
if forced to go 2/0/2 he's good at fighting in the safe lane, if the enemy offlane jungles then he can go greedy and outfarm 99% of carries
win fights early and you can deathball with him, lose fights and you can just rat
he used to be able to do all these but all the small buffs and changes add up and make him better at it
im pretty sure the correct way to play terrorblade is to just run at buildings as early as possible before the enemy has levels, then use the gold advantage you get to secure pushing items, take roshan with a meta and then clear tier 2s and maybe push highground if u rosh after a t2 or two.
He is in a good shape, i will not deny it. Yet there's still more than plenty of way to deal with him, easilier than most carry. So, op, definitly not.
Edit: Did one team tryed to face tb during laning stage btw? cause that's literally auto win
Yeah i agree, TB is a very weak laner, if you go duallane or trilane against a TB lineup you won the game.
saying u can dual/tri a hero can be said for like half the carries in dota. slark, huskar, etc all get fucked by it, but in most lineups its not actually possible to go aggro. if u pick lion/phoenix its super hard to do it, same with disruptor and some others who just sit there and take levels and cant really do anything at early levels.
theres not plenty of ways to deal with the hero, elder titans always banned first phase or picked by the team thats going to pick tb, and theres no way to counter this hero if you set him up to take tons of towers early on. he shuts down almost every offlaner in dota because its not possible to lane against him after level 2, he takes the offlane tower in the first 5 minutes on his 2nd metamorphosis and after that he just runs around the map taking towers and roshans and farms jungle with illusions in between. the heroes really stupid in the current metagame where theres so many defensive supports like phoenix/dazzle/venge/oracle and even defensive cores in juggernaut who make the hero unkillable. the issue with him is you cant first phase him unlike jugg or void but if you pick him 2nd phase hes probably the strongest hero in dota
im sitting here looking at one of the top posts on reddit about the hero and theres some moron saying magic damage and heavily armored opponents counter him. newsflash, if u push with this hero and take towers in the first 10-15 minutes of the game, none of that shit matters. you get a dragon lance and have an oracle or something behind you and the hero literally does not die. if you have oracle, he gets his ult off 10 times out of 10. you cant kill him. you cant burst him. you cant fight into him.
the metagame right now allows teams that pick superior 5 man to literally just walk down lanes and win fights with superior sustain if their lanes went okay, which makes most of tbs counters ineffective.
you lost to soggy mitts in open qualifiers ojeajfiogjghaoh;jer;ghjaroighjaeroighjeraiojeo;hjoejejoeajrho;
lol i had 2x 1ks and a 3k matched with faceit and I played on 200 ping 5% packet loss
Not throwing excuses, but ex boreal esports weren't THAT bad :^)
No. Tb can be considered overpowered late game, but only if the other team allows him to farm. Tb is an okay hero now, but not the best and not overpowered at all, he can push pretty well, but aoe spammers burn through tb completely. He's like clinks, only good against certain lineups
tier 3 team vs 1ks
Hm. Not the right perspective to call someone garbage. And half of their team were from boreal esports. Rolo 470 futzeh. Eosin went to play with kai instead of them and that's why they did quite poorly imo, but w/e.
Now when you place yourself in the same team as yawar and ritsu you have no right to call anyone else garbage or a moron, ykno. I wasn't even referring to you as a 2k in this thread, but hey, if you feel like being called one then sure.
The entire point of tb is you shouldnt be able to kill him without A LOT of lockdown. His entire point is your carry shouldnt be able to kill him thats why he has sunder and a 100% damage dealing enemy illlusion with his slow , however due to the slow being aoe now it gets countered by linkens. Ofcourse if you pick a hero like alchemist vs tb you will lose, thats what pros dont get. Legion commander is the counter to him as long as you have a decent lineup with a lion, tinker etc. He should be ez food. If he has an oracle on his team you need someone like that on your team as well. Omni forces him to get diffusal, Dazzle with legion works well too(and necro).
the above poster is an idiot
the poster 3 posts above is also an idiot for thinking that a group of low tier 5ks/low 6ks (dunno which) are remotely equatable to yawar and ritsu who are both mid to high 7k and are among the most talented mid/safelane players in na. do they act like idiots sometimes sure but theyre incredibly good at dota so who cares.
just because someones 2k doesnt give some random moron like you the right to call them morons when theyre 100% right that the hero is a super top tier hero with almost no direct counters that make sense in captains mode and in the flow of the game that terrorblade imposes on the other team.
KR, the difference between every single carry and tb during laning phase, is that if you face it, no matter which 2 support he has, he cann't farm. Else he die. Slark despite being super weak during laning phase (or even worst spectre) can farm, cause they will not die, and with defensiv support and some reg, they can farm again few sec after being engage.
If the offensiv lane is played correctly, you can'nt even try to grind the aggro on creep with tb, while you can do it with most other carry, which make the difference between 0 creep and 1-3 creeps/wave
With tb, that just doesn't happen, you straight die if opponent engage you (unless there's a grave).
Also the commitment of hero is way littler to contest a tb, than to contest other heroes. so you don't have to take that trash razor (for example) to contest the lane. So you don't have to go out of your way via a bad pick (bad yet situational) that you don't master.
And the last thing, if ever there's a movement away by support (like ganking mid/warding etc...) and that your own support have to move away too. if you are on equal footing with the remaining heroes (which in first place shouldn't even be the case), then you cann't even grind some advantage for when your sup comeback. Cause unless you use meta, you'll lose every single trade you might want to try. (For example, either other have some kind of regen, and in worst case keep statu quo, am will lose on hp, but trade it for mana. Spectre will be happy via the xp, for a faster 6)
lul, since when is ritsu 7k? Oh right when he was 6k he bought kikonis 7.2k account so he could brag about himself being 7k and be picked up on a pro team. The following kicks were a proof that he's one of the most talented players for sure :^)) Also afaik soggy mitts had 2 7ks and 2 6ks or so. And nowhere did I compare your trash stack vs their stack. Reading comprehension is not what you've learned in school as it may seem.
I haven't watched these qualifiers but at Manila is was same deal, he's a great pocket pick 4th or 5th when the enemy has no picks left to counter and suddenly has to give tb free farm and has no lockdown for team fights. I saw medusa absolutely throttle a team with drow on her side, does that mean dusa is op? Fuck no it was just a last pick they weren't ready for.
yeah theres a severe amount of impracticality and retardedness in this thread i think im going to exit this forum again
Played him last night and had the first win in ages (5 game loss in a row or something), though I'm fairly convinced it was entirely because the enemy 5 stack were not really trying - eg aghs refresher Luna, guardian greaves/Linkens Viper, Pipe first Centaur etc etc. Plus they laned centaur/luna offlane against me and skywrath so skywrath was able to chip away at most of the Luna's hp in the laning phase and send her back to base to regen. Against a proper aggressive dual lane I'm sure I would have got very little out of the lane unless I used meta form.
Even then it was pretty even for a little while as they were able to push easily and the other 4 people on my team alone were not able to win a straight up teamfight (esp against Aghs Luna before I got BKB). Plus when they were pushing a tier 2 as 5 and I didn't have meta form for 40 seconds available was extremely difficult, we almost got team wiped except for the fact our skywrath was able to silence Luna before she got off ulti. There were also several times where I nearly got completely bursted down in the duration of their stuns only to manage to get off a last second sunder - at one point I did a 76hp sunder - the enemy team's lack of coordination was the only saving grace.
One nice thing is that the reflection of Luna gets moon glaives so it actually does more damage to her team than what a normal reflection would do.
The bunch of recent little buffs, extra armour, better team fight reflection, 2 second longer 10 less mana 425%->400% damage illusions metaform -.01 BAT - these are all little quality of life things which do nothing to address the weaknesses the hero has.
Point is he needs to get either freefarm against a solo offlaner or a weak aggressive dual lane, needs to not be against a team with a strong early game pushing line up or a lane dominating/ganking lineup so that he has enough time to farm up the items he needs to be able to fight, needs to have metamorphosis available for a team fight, needs to not be against heroes with spammable nukes/wave clear, needs to not be against a team who all have stuns/lockdown, has no way to deal with illusion heroes like PL, CK, naga himself etc etc etc. Very definition of a situaional hero.
10 armor at lvl 1? i think normal auto attacks at TB with poormanshield won't do shit to him.
If you read his posts you would know that yes he does know KR played with ritsu and still thinks that their all shit because he can't wrap his head around the fact that your mmr does not mean you are one hundred percent right about all topics involving dota and that everyone below you are morons.
By the way that was a nice run Kitrak
Alright I need to know what Zenoth posted please repost comment.
2 of the best TB players in the game in the same thread 0_0
Magic still fucks him up lads... :(
Sooo its 2/0/2 during lane phase huh, will try it out
Kitrak , Matrice and zenoth in same thread nice draw , need more threads like this. I might have to try tb myself .
@muranji he was just questioning whether mmr elitist primavera knew that Kitrak played the open qualifiers with ritsu, it didn't have anything to actually do with tb
bearcat, where did I say I'm 100% right? Well, I'm pretty sure that 2ks are 100% wrong on so many levels though and arguing vs matrice is just going to be a fun thing to see. Insert kitrak, a person who took that personally and decided to blow a bubble and now leaves the discussion after realising he fucked up.
Also lmao only yawar could lose with alch when having 25k lead on top of everyone + his team having 40k total gold lead. Idk why is he even a thing other than an ugly sandnigger brother of oxen meme.
muranji, I think zenoth tried to reply negatively towards me but after realising the whole deal decided to delete his comment. Just proves again how much of a circlejerk dotabuff has become. We need wave back to call out on this autism avalanche plaguing db. FeelsBadMan
I dunno who you are prim but from this thread you seem arrogant . Haven't seen post from u before .
Reality check. I'm not here to pander to your circlejerk. I get picked on and I'm not just going to suck a dick, ykno.
And lol what are these plebs with their "I haven't seen you post" or "who are you". Literal embodyment of a circlejerk. Some already realised on another thread, but who cares anyway.
I wasn't calling out shit, I only wondered aloud if you knew kr = kitrak and deleted it when I reread one of your comments
alright since ur all apparently too dumb to realize a few things
saying "oh go aggro tri him!" isnt practical whatsoever. lets look at the top supports in the meta right now
phoenix-garbage in aggro tri
lion-garbage in aggro tri
disruptor-garbage in aggro tri
beastmaster-jungler
venge-can be done but needs a zoning presence behind her or a really strong lane
elder titan-good in dual lanes with a stout, not a good aggro tri support, needs levels
earthspirit-not really good outside of dual lanes
oracle-not terrible but not great either
dazzle-great
imo shadow demon should make a resurgence at least a bit and hes good in these setups, but i dont think aggro tri is very good atm. the advantages of safelane having easy access to pulls and being able to block sidepulls means that safelanes should always trade xp favorably provided they didnt draft literal garbage. likewise, with most terrorblade drafts, you always draft a strong trilane behind him so hes guaranteed a good start and one defensive support (oracle/sd/whatever) who guarantees his lane will be good.
terrorblade safelane trilanes insanely strong because as soon as you hit level 2 you have crazy kill potential. the hero has good armor and is hard to zone for most supports in aggro tri setups. dazzle/naga/rubick or sd is always good against melee cores.
you say slark can get 1-3 cs per wave, thats complete bullshit. i was looking at this the other day because we played an aggro tri in one of our scrims with sd/dazzle/naga and the naga got uncontested farm and the lifestealer for the most part got nothing in the lane. after the first wave the aggro tri can run sidepulls constantly, block off the small camp since theyre the stronger lane and if you tp down you can prevent hardcamp from being blocked and contest it a lot better. sidepulls + strong zoning = no hero in the game will get anything out of that. slark is total garbage in lane by the way. huskars worse if he gets aggrod i guess.
and this is all assuming the aggro tri even plays out. in the current metagame, its not hard to scout out lanes 30 seconds before the runes spawn due to teleporting to lanes and planting wards. so i can just dodge your aggro tri, if you tp to my lane ill tp to the safelane and weve got our ideal setup and you cant tp back to me, problem solved. not to mention aggro tri if it doesnt net kills will kill the supports xp in most cases since you have to bottle up both your supports there - i can just sack my tb and either send him to the jungle or roam on my supports to force you off of it or come up with a decent trade. terrorblade still hits a sick timing window, just a little bit later, but imo the heros more dependent on having supports with levels than anything. if he has an oracle or sd or something behind him, he doesnt need anything more than a dragon lance to hit buildings well.
this hero got picked like twice in our finals against void boys and in the first game there was literally nothing we could do to stop their push. we had bh+darkseer in our offlane but oracles such a strong safelane support that you cant send ds there so ds jungles, bh does whatever, and they had a jugg mid (couldh ave been dp or anything thats ungankable, dk, whatever) so we cant contest that lane, safelane went fine and we got fb and stuff but unless you totally win the early game against tb trilanes you probably lose.
i think its similar to lone druid in a lot of respects, just he hits an earlier timing window that isnt nearly as strong. the way liquid runs lone druid is really cool in that they move him around pre-radiance usually to the mid lane to take that tower and then 4 man the enemy safelane tower in some kind of trade and then go back to lds lane and take that tower, at which point ld is basically given a 15 minute radiance and if you have phx or something you cant contest that push.
regarding ritsu and yawar, im not sure how you can call them trash when ritsus pretty much indisputably a top 2 carry player in north america and yawars probably one of the top 5-6 mid players in the region. ritsus got like 3 7k accounts so who cares if he bought one lol, so did arteezy, who cares. i get that its the popular opinion on reddit to hate players based on the 2-3 things you see about them on the front page but unless youve actually played with these guys on teams you shouldn't make any kind of judgements about them. same reason that people shouldnt call arteezy a team cancer or some shit when teams actually want him back because hes arguably the most talented safelane player there is right now and is insanely good (him and bulba have been owning in these qualifiers). soggy mitts also has godzhand007 whos among the most garbage players ive ever laid eyes upon (im no mid player and i shit on the guys invoker) and he spams us west which is why youll never see him beat another 7k player mid ever. everyone on soggy mitts is garbage and if you think otherwise youre delusional. im not saying we were great either but soggy mitts lost to not today/masons team/tralfs stack (forget which) in like 10 minutes which is just embarrassing.
ur saying theres some circle jerk here when ur openly participating in that in ur first post in this thread. might want to do some self examination before you start throwing accusations around.
ur also like low to mid 4k mmr, even if thats a throwaway account or something and ur 6k-7k i think ur seriously stupid to flame ritsu/yawar on the basis of skill. for all the shit they get none of its really related to skill, and personally i think both of them are easy players to play with, they play whatever hero you want them to play and theyre really good at their roles. even ee and a bunch of other top players have acknowledged how talented ritsu is so id take their word over the fragments of the picture and the poor analysis reddit does.
TB gonna be the like spectre in the previous patch . A carry that comes online early and can transition to late game
and yeah you can hate on ritsu all you want but hes one of the best core players in NA hands down
theres some old vods of tb getting aggro trid back pre-reflection with c9 and i remember in one of them c9 just flat out killed the enemy aggro tri, got 2 kills and at that point the games practically over
well if the eu qualifier shows anything shadow demon is becoming a presence. Secret picked it up several times and it got picked up in a couple of other matches. Sd is pretty good against tb too because you can take that really farmed tb that hits for 400 damage and have your own 400 damage tb's. And with the meta as it is you don't need a trilane. Just take an axe and dark seer to the offlane and you force the other teams supports to stay with the tb and you don't sacrafice that much because the axe can farm in their jungle and contest most of what the supports try to do. The supports can't contest the other lanes making those lanes much easier and the supports get very little making the tb easier to kill because he gets slowed down a little and he has underleveled supports behind him. and with ion shell call and a couple of spins it is possible to punish if one of their heroes wanders to far out of position.
^l0l
Just played a couple of terrorblade games on normal skill bracket today
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/300975447
S E E M S G O O D
Kitrak is right, who ever disagrees is most likely a noob
How ever i must say that i think in order for TB to have maximum impact in game , you definitly need a team with atleast 2 players that understand that TB comes online fast and is ready to fight/push..
If u get retards who farm jungle while u are trying to take objectives.. you are forced to just farm while the enemy farms and then there is no huge gold advantage.
Pro teams are extremely successful w. Tb right now cuz they are aware of when he is most useful and how they should play with him on the team,
So i dont think he is like a Solo que pub unless you are around 6k mmr or higher ..
But if u have some competent teammates, ur good to go.
Tb has 54% winrate with 6% pick rate in 5k+ while timber and ls have 30% pickrate with 53% winrate each.
He does come online early but he is shit in the mid game. Strong only early and late. The same way every other hero in the game is strong at 2 stages of the game e.g slark mid and late but shit early.
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80% winrate in the regional qualifiers, its first picked or banned in so many games.