General DiscussionIs high and very high have big gasp?

imagine high as dirty homeless woman without teeth while very high is current version of miley cyrus

rofl :))))))))

high pool = 100% noobs
very high pool = 99% noobs, 1% good players

about that

^ahhaahahahah

The difference between high and very high is how likely youll play against a stack or not.

also, the level of throws is way higher in very high.

as much as people in very high bitch and moan I have seen the players in normal / high and it made myself feel lucky that I am only stuck with the very high "noobs". At least the garbage players in vhigh KNOW what wards are(whether they buy them or not LOL)

On very high the guy who picks AM or whatever carry is more likely to know how to farm.

so does high :\

most people in high "think" they know the basics but they very rarely do

most but not all of them

truth is theres is absolutely nothing very high about very high
match makers alghoritm is completely broken as it is +
tons of players have inflated winrate due to stacking as 3/4/5 in ap and so on

think about this
u can get matched with 30%winrate people even when u have 1k+wins at 60% ie swiftending

and if any of u think that dota 2 has good mm try hon there 60%winrate player like swift wont ever end up with 30%wr player on same team

also one more imortant thing when u create new account and beat people that cant play at all twice all within 0-5wins span you end up in so called very high which is laughable to say the least

When I first started playing dota2, I was always in high. Whenever I stacked with friends, we ended up in very high and during that time, playing in very high was much much much harder than high. Now fast forward two years later, playing in high is a joke and playing in very high is definitely better. However, it is still frustrating because you still get matched with retards, but at least they understand the basics which 99% of players in normal and high don't understand. Also, I don't understand valves new mm system. It matches you with players who have like 10 wins because they owned in the lower brackets, but as soon as they move up, most of the time they can't last hit for shit and just get owned.

look at my profile can you tell me how im not mm in very high? just curious (and ignore that winrate pls -.-)

http://dotabuff.com/matches/307306559
there you go

^
? what you mean :|

dunno dude mm makes no sense u can find people with 4x winrate playing vh solo

@Smoke weed:

you are not very high ^^

you: http://pubstats.me/72153824

me: http://pubstats.me/100893598/
(the 4% normal games are custom games @league)

if you win 50% of your games then mm guesses your being matched accordingly
there are people playing with 47-48% winrate in very high but at the time they were normal/high they've won significantly more than 50% of their games or they were doing a lot better relative kda wise

Valve understands that since dota 2 in a 5man game only factoring wins / winrates into MM would make 0 sense. I could be the best BH player in the world and there are games me and my team dont sync and we lose. Does that mean I suck? No it means dota team synergy(heroes, players ect.) is the most important thing for a win. While someone might think "hey I went 20-0 why am I still in normal when I am owning noobs?" You dont take into account that you where playing luna auto attacking while you supports lined up every kill perfectly or the fact that the game prior you where 0-20. If you actually look at your gameplay through unbiased eyes VH MM isnt all that hard to play in(IM talking VH solo not stacks because anyone can get into a VH stack if you understand how the system works) BUT some people dont like to improve and that is their choice

i think i have pretty decent KDA :)
@myveggy: thats why i'm asking why im not mm in VH :P

because KDA doesnt matter.........

fuck me then. not a single clue about how to get in VH :(
p/s: just saw a guy with winrate like me and play in VH xDDD

I'm so pretty sure it accounts for who you win and lose against. Maybe you're losing to lower MMR players and in the process, your mmr goes down by quite a bit and in order for you to recover, you might have to win 2 games to make up for that 1 loss

i do stack with some normal bracket guy but my winrate when stack with them is 100%, but when i return to solo que suddenly i got down to normal and take me about 5 game to get back to high. Pretty mind fuck with this mm xD (i think you even get to normal by stacking with normal player and win game with them xD)

Winrates have nothing to do with brackets. MM tries to lower your winrate as close to 50% as possible. Those that are above it, tend to breakeven players (extra wins from lower brackets), good players or just some people consistently 5 stacking.

I'm assuming a variety of factors are taken in, including your enemy teams total MMR, your teams total MMR. Stats like wards, assists, kda.

You could sum everything up as simply having to win more because winning basically your stats look nicer after each game. E.g higher average gpm/expm or whatever.

You need to win more to elevate up to higher brackets probably, but then as anyone knows mm fucks you up afterwards so your winrate remains close to 50%.

volvo said mm doesnt try to keep you at 50% btw

Are you sure its 100%? Whenever I stack with my normal friends, we always go up to very high and when I lose, I know for a fact that my MMR drops a lot. Even if I'm still in very high, after losing those matches with my lower MMR friends, I can feel the decline in skill level as soon as I solo queue after.

Does it matter what it 'says'?

Everyone knows after a hit of winning streaks, you can expect to get a bunch of losing streaks due to stronger opponents or pathetic teammates. Anybody who has a winrate above 60% stacks. It is near impossible to achieve that high of a winrate otherwise. (probably some people have achieved, these are few and far inbetween)

Almost everybody has a winrate from 48%~52%. Whether or not 'volvo' says it doesn't want to keep you at 50%, most people are, so take it at face value.

you can watch my profile and notice a guy name No1[R]JustNoob. he's normal and i have 100% winrate with him but still drop to normal when i stack
example about winrate doesnt matter i think: http://dotabuff.com/players/138183497

Winrate does not matter. I've been matched with people who have 65% winrates and I'm only at 54%. The worst part is my wr in a stack is significantly lower than my winrate going solo.

^
so what you think about 100% winrate and still drop to normal? weird huh xD

It just means your MMR is not high enough to carry your lower MMR friends up to high.

errrr..... when i solo que im down to normal after stack with him. the point is :weird mm

That I'm not too sure about. Talk to Volvo about that one ;)

I've only ever had one very high match and it didn't feel any different, maybe a little more punishing if you make mistakes. I currently rotate between normal and high as I don't have friends to stack with.

wheres relentless to kill this thread when you need him?

hes trying to contact @foggeddota to tell him why they lost yesterday

Dota's skill range isn't 3 strict categories; it's a bell curve, which the Devs have said numerous times on the forums. So how big of a difference there is between High and V.High depends on the extremities of each side you look at. If you compare the bottom of High to the top of V.High, the gap is naturally going to be larger.

Whereas if you take me for example, I play in High when solo-queue, with some of my games falling into V.High, and they're both the exact same. This is because I'm in the top of High, but very bottom of V.High.

There are good Very High players

and there is this Pudge http://dotabuff.com/matches/307667060

Remember that games with the same average rating from different servers rather DO NOT look the same. There is even a big difference between russia and east europe. This guy plays on SEA, while majority here is EU/NA.

I think C has it backwards, valve doesn't enforce a 50% win rate, but it should be the natural result of proper matchmaking, thus why most players regress to 50%. It's not like the mmr says oh wow you've won 5 games in a row, time to put a stop to that and gives you a bunch of noob teammates. What happens is your rating naturally goes up, so you naturally fight better competition and end up with a couple losses while you adjust.

the way mm works you don't necessarily play against better people (in every game) when your MMR goes up
there are 10 players in every game, so in every single game there's a highest rated and a lowest rated player
so you can end up in rather low rated games where you are the highest or in comparatively higher rated games where you are the lowest rated player

so in some games you have to seemingly carry the game almost alone/completely stomp to win the game while in others you'd be better of letting a better player play high impact heroes/roles
so when you take a little sample of games you might not see a difference or get very frustrated about how some people suck so much because they don't know where they stand when the game starts
+people arent really that interested in seeing their own mistakes

You just need mad skills so that you can start facing pro players and tryhard stacks.

The main difference between a typical Very High game and a typical High game is the teamwork will be tons better in the Very High game. It's not always true of course...but on average the Very High game players will not merely attempt proper roles (which may be attempted in High)...but actually know how to execute them and be skilled and well practiced at their role. Often this is, as Blunt said, because its a stack of 3 or 4 or even 5 High to Very High MMR players.

While there will be plenty of stacks in High bracket, the stacks in Very High can be vastly better...even to the point of being a pro team. If your stack has 3 players ranked in the top 2-3% its pretty much never going to be in a High game. So all the really coordinated, experienced, talented stacks are in Very High.

different name same shit

Think more about how you can improve your game, identify your mistakes,question your decision-making instead of the skill bracket you are in.

look at my profile can you tell me why im not in very high? i saw a guy had same wins same winrate less KDA and currently hes playing in VH. im not cocky or anything just curious :)

@Mark, plenty of times my streak of losses were due to inept teammates or really coordinated stacks. I think I played well in most of those games only to lose due to team stupidity(although I have a few bad games too). If what you suggest is true, then it would be more appropriate if my teammates were of an upper standard as well, not just the enemy. Streaks of losses also accompany streaks of wins. They seem to come together. This is all just my opinion though since I don't really know the mechanics behind matchmaking.

@Smoke weed every day, like I said, proobably the MMR. Having a KDA of 7 against very low MMR opponents isn't nearly as good as a KDA of 4 against good ones. In this case, you might have a lower KDA or winrate but the system registers you in a higher bracket.

First blood

High player mentality:

Oh my god WHY HAVENT YOU GANKED YET MID FFS(35 seconds into game)

Very high player mentality:

Meh, no worries

Basically, When going gets tough, very high players don't crumble. I've had many games just this week we have been 10-15 kills behind 20 mins in and we still end up winning very comfortably.