Quickest guide on getting to high MMR pool:
1. Create new account
2. Select "beginner, first time doto!"
3. Pick stomping middle
4. Stomp bunch of newbies into oblivion (Make sure your KDA is at least 30 or more)
5. Enjoy being in extremely high MMR pool
6. Get reported for runinig high MMR games
7. Get muted
8. Get to low priority
9. Repeat #1
Your record with 800 games is well established. If you have 5 years of experience with dota and are getting those results it is almost certainly because you have relatively slow and clumsy fingers compared to most dota players. This can be frustrating and hard to accept. Dota is a very fast and complicated game. If you have those results and truly believe you are at above average skill....it is likely that your ability to accurately perceive and understand the game in real time is also low.
If you cannot admit to yourself that you are slow and often incorrectly perceive what has happened in real time in a game then you will not be able to make any substantial corrections. If you can admit that you really are a player of below average ability then you have some options to get into higher level games. Millions of dota players are like you, relatively slow of finger, eye, and nerve connections. Anyone like this should also benefit from my advice.
[1] Admit you are slow and don't really know what is happening in fights and on the map.
[2] Take the time to watch your replays and compare to a pro player on the same hero. Watch from Point of View. Watch your mouse clicks...recognize how many errors you really are making and how slowly you really react to changes in the fight and on the map.
[3] Take measures to minimize your weakness by your play.
-----(A) Play heroes that do not require much precise clicking....this means support heroes and offlane heroes with 1 big ultimate
-----(B) Learn to watch the map more carefully and understand what it means, when to attack, when to hide, when to rosh, when to tp, when to push, when to defend, when to smoke...these can be learned and do not depend on mouse control skill
-----(C) Learn to effectively communicate with the team, make them aware of what is about to happen, make them feel good so they play well, cause team cohesion not dissension.
[4] Find other experienced, helpful, positive players and play in a stack. Realize that if you have not made the changes I explained in steps 1-3....people will not want you on their team because you are slow and clumsy and don't recognize your mistakes. Once you have made the proper improvements to yourself...then you can look to join others and they will accept you.
dat 200 pudge matches tho
But seriously, I see you have picked mostly dominant mids such as sf, puck, etc. If you are truly so much better than the other 9 players(who are equally skilled), getting a few kills in a 1v1 lane would be easy, and since the other 9 should be of equal skill they should not feed every game, and so transitioning from that into mid game through ganks or pushes should be fairly simple. Adding on to that, your KDA for most heroes is around 2, which is honestly quite low for the heroes you play (puck, pudge, etc).
Thus I believe you think too highly of your personal skill and that you need to stop having the mindset of "I'm better than everyone in my game why is everyone on my team feeding". If you begin to give yourself an opportunity to improve by looking at your replays, learning from better players etc, then you can slowly but surely get better at the game and get into a higher MMR.
I'm not trying to be too critical but this is just my honest opinion.
I gave him real hope...not an illusion. I could be like a motivational speaker and tell everyone they are special and wonderful. But it's a lie. Most people are average and ordinary. There is nothing wrong with that, but you need to recognize reality and deal with it appropriately.
There is a massive culture based on sales of the many self-improvement products and programs that constantly proclaims that message. But its a lie.
Reality is that training does not begin to have much relevance unless talent is close to equal. Also there is a massive difference between "training" as in a real program taught by an expert to address your weaknesses...and merely lots of repetition of doing it wrong. What pub dota players with years of experience have is tons of practice doing things wrong. That will not improve anyone.
People who posses real talent in any arena know how it is. You start doing something...it seems very easy almost immediately and you quickly jump to the very top without much effort or practice. Then you finally reach a level where you are against the very best and training starts to matter. Then, unless you are the tiny handful that are truly the best in the entire world...there will be people above you that are more talented and no amount of practice, training, and hard work can let you touch them. That is how it really is. Accepting reality is essential to dealing with it appropriately.
How can someone always be better if no one can be the best? Anyway, dota is a team game, and there are many other factors than individual skill and talent that mathers in order to win a game. There is no point in having 5 of the best players in the world if they can't cooperate.
making good picks and understanding a hero's playstyle is a huge part of the game
if you play in pubs, you should have at least a bit of clue of what are you going to do, and try to counterpick enemy team or play along to your team
i haven't played mid anywhere as much as you, but a very important part of it is timing your ganks properly, if you time it wrong and you're solo, no amount of skill will help you kill the enemies
someone tell me i'm pro plz
"Then you finally reach a level where you are against the very best and training starts to matter. Then, unless you are the tiny handful that are truly the best in the entire world...there will be people above you that are more talented and no amount of practice, training, and hard work can let you touch them." Sounds like pure apathy to me. Did you meet the wall once?
In dota as in most everything, there are many people who are far better than I could ever be and don't even require much effort to accomplish it.
This is true for you also. You can choose to lie to yourself if you like and imagine that if you really worked hard you could be anything. That feels good and inspires a temporary false sense of confidence that can keep pushing you to work. Choose to believe what you will. Go ahead and try to grow really hard and become a 6'6" basketball player when you are really 5'5". Believe you can do it...pretend this is the Matrix.
Basketball lacks versatility of different kind of players because the height so important, but if you look at soccer for example you'll see players with bad physique or lack of technic at top level. Both Eden Hazard and Mertesacker are successfull soccer players, but still so different.
^ Yeah, until you get flagged for exploiting and everything starts falling apart. :D
Where did you get the Dunning-kruger effect from? Got absolutely nothing to do with the replies in this topic.
Uh, I dunno what Relentless is smoking. One can be quite good/competitive without being the most gifted physically/mentally, although obviously the odds are against them. For example, you may get 7 crits in a row with PA to win the game, a fact that has almost nothing to do with being good at clicking or not. Thinking correctly and training correctly, which are obviously very difficult things to do (pretty much no one can do this step), will significantly increase your odds of being lucky, as will being physically/mentally gifted, but surely it's not all just being gifted rofl.
You're assuming that everyone is capable of improving their game awareness and "thinking correctly." That's just not the case. I have a particular friend (real life friend of my brother so obligated to play with him from time to time) who has around 600 life time matches yet 42% win rate. He never gets better. He bitches constantly and we give him encouragement and helpful pointers. We pick supports and secure him free farm and he still can't last hit and farm right. We ask him to play support and just hang back and not die and ward and he still is out of position and feeds. My last game with him we just won a fight mid but windrunner escaped and was running back to their base. He was on nyx and started chasing. I told him, leave it alone, go gank bottom, you won't catch her, he dove the tower and died. I said why did you chase her I clearly explained it was useless and there was a gank bottom lane, and he just goes yea I thought I had it! Some people just never learn, they're incapable of thinking in complete game terms, they only see what's right in front of them. He was also probably the worst world of warcraft player and the worst halo player I've ever met. His personality just doesn't lend itself to gaming.
Uh, I'm pretty sure most people can learn how to make the reasonable decision most of the time, especially if they are guided by others. Although it may not be the optimal decision, making a reasonable decision is not that hard. I mean literally a cow could be trained to look at the mini-map every 10 seconds and count how many enemy heroes there are. If you just use the criterion if there are 0 heroes on the map to GTFO, then you've just succeeded in improving your map awareness and reduced how many times you'll die. It's not that hard if you literally train to do so.
Man i dont know. Your kda is pretty low in my opinion. Try to play heroes that can won the game alone. My favorite heroes for that are OD, Necro and kunkka.
Sora, it's just not there for some people. There's a difference between not reaching your potential due to ignorance and just not having any more potential. Not everyone can be great at everything, no matter how long they practice at it. There needs to be at least some level of talent there in order to reach for the stars, otherwise they will forever be mediocre. Trust me, I've tried helping people for years on certain games and they just can't get anywhere beyond mediocre no matter what i tell them, no matter what tools I give them, they remain mediocre. As much as I joke that "mediocrity is a choice", for some people it's not. The people that are doomed to mediocrity forever are typically stubborn people too that refuse to break their habits, though even if they do, they don't get much better if at all.
Well your 1st hero is pudge. Pudge is the worst mid hero ever,you either snowball too hard or you feed
^ Adding on to that, Pudge is also the hero that most people learn to counter when first playing dota since it will be in pretty much 80% of games. If you just want to win soloqueue pubs, using more unconventional heroes like tinker, timbersaw, etc would increase your chances of winning, mainly due to people not having too much experience facing up against, say, tinker's splitpush, or underestimating timbersaw's nukes. If you are playing in a group, wombo combo lineups like naga+enigma+sf works really well if you practise it a few times with your friends as in lower level pubs, everyone clumps together and autoattacks towers when pushing.
Ok sora but what if said person is in the middle of a gank and they don't notice the mid coming in to counter gank? You might be able to train them to check mini map every 10 seconds while idle but some people are not multi task thinkers. I think that's mainly my example dude's issue.
@ Dipshit, it's obviously true that there is a point at which you will not have any more potential. However, I believe that that point is higher than normal bracket (well say the 80%-tile) for the average person (we obviously exclude people who are truly in actuality mentally retarded). Everyone I've helped significantly at least in dota has reached that kind of level. Although I might just happen to have a ton of gifted friends or something, but I think it's cuz they practiced and worked to get to that level in approximately the correct way. Also, having someone better tell you what you sucked at really does help a ton.
@ Mark, uhh dude that's something that even pros get raped by, so I don't see the relevance in some rando getting owned by it too. That just means that like pros, they aren't perfect at the game. Plus, the easiest way to avoid that is to be paying attention to what your teammates say (i.e. MID MIA, TA MIA etc), which is again not something I think is unreasonable for people to do given that most people can and do carry on conversations while surfing the web, watching tv, doing hw, etc.
"However, I believe that that point is higher than normal bracket (well say the 80%-tile) for the average person"
Sorry Sora, but no matter what you think, the average person will be at their best at 50%, this is why it's called average. There really are people that cap out at the 25 percentile. I've tried working with people that perform below the 10 percentile and brought them up to the 25-30 percentile range, but that was as high as they could go and they couldn't even maintain it consistently.
Remember, the brackets are ever evolving. If the entire community gets better, the requirements of the brackets get that much harder to overcome. The top 10% can only ever contain 10% of the community, it can not contain 40%.
I'm saying the average person has the potential to reach the 80%-tile. This can be true given that it's rare for people reach their potential. Most people are way under. Also, given that you yourself are no better than the 80%-tile (all normal bracket games from what I looked up), it's obviously much harder to help other people.
Wasn't referring to this game in particular with those examples. In those games I sat above the 95 percentile(going as high as #1 under certain circumstances), but different genre, though same concept with what I'm pointing out.
And I think I'm starting to do half decent here...was -30 at one point @.@ though I have been in a few high bracket games(10-20), which isn't all that impressive but I do regularly read forums/watch guides and do a bit of theorycraft/testing so...I know the information, it's just a matter of not panicking and trying not to rage when the team doesn't follow-up >=O
Though like I said, if everyone can reach their potential, the average person still maxes out at 50%. If you're saying the individual rises up to 80%, then remember that every individual they jumped also goes down 1, repeat enough times and we're back to square one.
Games played =/= skill.
You don't seem to understand the point of matchmaking.
MM is trying to find players with similar skill level and make them battle in an even game. (50% chance to win for both sides)
If your global winrate is close to 50% that means your skill cap has been reached. It [u]doesn't[/u] make you bad, it just means that you've found your place.
You can still end up playing in the same pool bracket as Dendi http://dotabuff.com/players/70388657, even if your winrate is around 50% it doesn't mean that your ELO rating is low.
As you see one of the best middle players in Dota who usually plays public MM alone is averaging 55 - 56% winrate.
In the end only a fraction will have global winrate over 50% due to [u]evenly skilled[/u] teams competing against one another.
Playing with/against a stack is a different story.
What's really missing is some kind of ladder/information that shows your ELO/MMR rating and more data about your performance in general.
I don't think you understand me. I'm saying it's very possible for an individual to reach the 80%-tile. I'm not saying everyone SHOULD or WILL. The argument that omg I can't get better because everyone else is getting better too is really silly, given that most of the population of dota stagnates and stop improving after awhile (myself included). This is why there are people who've played 4000 games playing in normal bracket.
lol I know about mmr, but whether you've settled or not, having 30 more losses than wins can tell you something xP and if you go back to that time period you can tell how low mmr it is: staying in lane until double digit levels, never breaking item/skill builds(if they even know one, and yes they refers to myself as well at the time), total denies by both teams combined still in single digits, etc etc. There are certain clues for telling where you're at in mmr. I'm on that cusp of item/skill build changes, tri lanes, blah blah blah, so I'm starting to edge into 'above average' or so(over 50% xP).
And I think you overestimate the "average player".
EDIT: and I see that post about mmr was aimed at someone else now...oh well xP
It may be that the average person could, by hard work, by gaining real training, and by "tryharding" and by stacking reach a point where they scored in the top 25% of dota players. Since a ton of people who had more potential would not try so hard to get it...
But if they do not recognize and admit that it will take that serious dedication to improvement...if they do not recognize that they are weak...then they will remain average no matter how many years they play the game.
A very experienced, average sort of player can marginally function in a game with much better players by at least knowing and attempting to do the right things. If his team is winning...he will probably be able to avoid causing them to lose most of the time. But if his team is not winning, he will have absolutely no power to change it.
When everyone is average bad games turn on the frequent persistent errors made by all the players on both teams. There are lots of opportunities to make a play because someone screwed up. But when everyone is actually good at dota you have to create opportunities by out thinking and out skilling the opponents. Average players just can't do that...even if they see others do it and have it explained to them, they cannot execute it no matter much practice they have. Even if they know exactly what to do, when, and how ...they will still need someone to tell them "Go now!" because they will not be able to perceive in real time the tiny window of opportunity an excellent player opposing them allows being out of position for a second or less. And even if someone tells them when...they probably are not quick, nimble, and accurate enough to execute a good play anyway.
Im pretty sure OP left after Relentless's first post. It's arguably true. I wouldn't know because I haven't seen OP's games but relentless now has me watching each game I play. -.-
actually relentless is right @Relentless . if anyone wanna improve on his or her skill the first thing is to admit that there are tons of players out there who are better , that includes me of course
WOW. LOL. Thanks guys. Especially @relentless thanks for all this advice. I have learned much from all of this~
[D]efineme, if you want a legitimate way to improve your skill, theres a solid way of doing it.
The 3-1 rule. For every 3 hours of playing, you spend 1 hour learning.
Learning compromises of;
-Reading guides.
-Practise mode for LH, testing skill distances, timings, finger speed for stuff like blinkpoof/invoker.
-Watching replays and spotting mistakes or places where there could have been decisions.
-Never overestimating yourself.
It sounds really cheesy but your skills will increase by leaps and bounds before you know it, be it map awareness, reaction speed or other things.
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Note: Getting off-topic here.
As much as I usually agree with Relentless, I disagree with that pessimistic view on natural talent. What the fuck bro? The only time you can say "hardwork will only take me so far" is when you've invested your everything into something and it still doesn't work out.
I won't say you might obtain what you want in the end since neither of us can tell the future but I can say without trying, nothing will ever happen.
@snowman, i believe this relentless dude is a homosex hence the weirdness and general pessimistic view of life
rumour has it on dbuff is that he was once rammed from behind with great and violent velocity tearing apart everything and led to rektal bleeding; not sure how true this rumour is though...
@snowman I'm not saying "don't work hard". Hard work is essential to achieve the best results you can in anything. I am trying to explain however that if you must look hard for your own errors to have any chance to improve and you need to have realistic expectations and goals or you will simply be disappointed...and often bitter and frustrated too.
There are two sides to this. First you cannot improve if you cannot accurately examine your own errors. 2nd you cannot be happy with your results if you are not content with what you really can achieve. Reaching for the stars...that "You can do anything!" attitude might at first sound romantic or heroic...but in the end it will produce the same impact as narcissistically believing you are God. You will end up seeing everyone else's errors and ignoring your own. This is because to keep believing "YES WE CAN", when you really can't leaves you paranoid wondering who backstabbed you to hold you down....but no one did. You really were small and weak all along.
It is better to admit you are limited. Find your limits. Then get as close to them as is really important to you. Reaching maximum potential as a dota player means a lot of areas of your life will have to be compromised. Is it really something worth trading when the best you can do if you go all in is 25th percentile? These are the choices people need to make and they need to clearly see themselves to make them.
Everyone can make improvements, but to do that you need to first clearly see where you really are now. That's all I'm trying to do: get people to know themselves first. If after a few hundred games of dota 2, you don't find that you are really beating nubs easily and rising into higher games...well the fact is you probably are not very talented and won't someday become an amazing player. There are Millions of dota 2 players. MILLIONS! If you are average that means 3 Million are better than you and 3 Million are worse. You can take pride in beating 3 million players or get upset about losing to 3 million...that's just a matter of perspective.
First thing is to find your game, or at least genre.
OFF
I can't play FPS, no matter what, going upstairs on a narrow stair is hard for me, and shooting somene is impossible. It took me days to play the Portal, thou I love it and I always figured out what to do, I just wasnt able to do it... My friends can finish that game in 2-3 hours as I remember...
My IQ and math skills are really (really) good, but my awareness is... bad. That's why I chose WoW and Heroes V some years ago. For WoW, one can find addons that give sound alarms and a lot of information on screen, so I can calculate what to do. I managed to get into top 10% half year after startint PvP there. I can also beat all my friends in Heroes V, couse there are more than enough info on screen and I have ~infinite time to think about the next move.
I will never ever be in top 10% here, but I can practice and learn enough to be way better than now. I can type 120+ words in a minute but Im still slow with using skills after each other, its something that I learned in 4 years of WoW, that there is a global cooldown and I usually wait for that time, even with skills where it is unneccessary...
ON
So what I mean is, if you are good at the skills a moba game requires, good for you. If you play this game cause of your friends do so, good for you. If you play this game alone and not good at it, try other games. If you love this one, try to improve on your weakest points, even if it requires robot-ish thinking.
Map awareness? Set a clock or something that ticks in every 10 sec and when you hear the sound, look at the minimap and the in-game clock. After some time, you wont need the reminder.
Teamwork? Gather friends or just add the players from your won games and play with them. Play wombo combos that require communication. Once you get used to it, it will be easier to do it with others.
Individual skills like LH or knowing ranges, etc? Go into practice with bots. What I fugured is, if you wanna practice last hits, queue to Medium Bots, they wont annoy you with that many denies, and after 5-10 mins, you can start over, so bot difficulty doesnt matter in any other aspects. Better players told me I should play 10-20 games on the same hero in a row to get used to its animations, etc, after that they can be in my hero pool and can pick them whenever I want.
Strategical decisions? It seems to be the hardest but watching games and guides can help i guess. My idea here is to download a replay of a VH game (not tournament, that is really another world, so wont work here), pick a hero you like to play and watch in player perspective. Every time you think an important decision is coming, pause the game and think. What would be the best option? When you picked one (most important to actually PICK _ONE_) action, continue watching and see what happens. You will see either:
-They used your idea? Did it work?
-They chose another action. Was it better? Would your idea work, taking into account other players moves?
You can shorten your thinking time after some games and only allow yourself 5 seconds. The just 2. Then dont even pause. You should shorten your time when most of the time you find a reasonably good action.
Also, watch with fog for only "your" team and when you made your decision, set fog to both teams.
These are things _I think_ can improve someone's gameplay. Maybe they cant. And also, this is for your worse aspect of the game, if you are really bad at something and need some hard improvement and dont have any other idea. Its like when you have a really goood PC but your processor is so bad it cant get to all other parts potential. So you will get the biggest improvement if you train yourself in your weakest points.
GL
[I know I am bad at Dota, I mostly learned these or similar things from other games or other ppl. And Im sure I would improve if i wouldnt be sooo lazy and would actually do these.]
you dont have emotional desire to be good/better = cheap tricks wont do much in your case
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I have been playing Dota for almost 5 years. Although i only recently got into Dota 2, I think i am a player of a better skill level than most. I have played with friends with better accounts at higher skilled matchmaking and played fairly well. Moreover, I am sick and tired of playing with noobs every now and then. I wanna know what's the best possible way to move on to a better matchmaking where i won't face people who are certainly noobs. I know i deserve a better game than what i am experiencing right now. It kinda sucks to be better than all 9 players in terms of knowledge, skill and dexterity but still unable to win cause I'm grouped up with 4 other noob team mates too... I really hope that there's a way in which i can increase my matchmaking level. Please help!