take refraction at level 1, allows you to easily dominate last hits right from the first wave, which is especially important against SF. Allows you to get a quick bottle, and slowing down SF from getting damage and also results in a slow a bottle (and level 3/5) which is important as well. Once you get level 2 and have psi blades you should be trying to hit SF a lot with the spill, and generally still dominating last hits.
I might sound rude but if you can't out-lasthit SF even with TA, then you really need more help. Also if you are having problems ask your team to gank him.
It all comes down to pressuring him in those first few waves. Zoning him, harassing with attacks and spells. That dude has literally nothing on him for level 1. Very little damage and very low hp so you should immediately set the lane tempo to you dominating him. If you're ahead in levels, items and runes, the SF will be a piece of cake. He only starts to pack a punch at level 5 and you shouldn't let him get there easy.
Regarding your last game, unless you got ganked, TA is a hero that rapes SF. He has no means to kill you thanks to refract unless you trade hits with creeps wacking you. Your bonus damage also means that other than SF's raze farming, you should be getting almost all the last hits + denies.
------------------------------------------------------------
ALTERNATE MEANS TO SHUTTING HIM DOWN:
Gank him. One or two successful ganks on this guy with no escape abilities and low hp will shut him down a lot.
dude that sf only has 75 lasthits in 22 minutes. But yeah, you have only 20, which lets say this is a very hard stomp but it is really bad even. To win a lane against shadow fiend u really first of all should know his weaknes (which is early game) and punish them. You also need to be good at lasthiting, and if you denie every single of his creeps early on, or at least make him to not lasthit the creep well, he will stay on 3-4 souls for 3-4 minutes and that early stage for him will never end, until of course he gets more points into his razes and start owning shit.
Pick heroes that can harass with 1 hit spells like qop, viper, bloodseeker. Just put those dots on him and then easily deny his creeps.
You can only out last hit a SF for so long. Given enough time, his damage WILL build up, and he WILL win. It's only a matter of time.
The way to win for sure is to either make it impossible for him to stay, or straight up kill him. He has no escape. As long as the gankers aren't too squishy and die to him, any stun spells death for him.
beating sf is all about the very start of the game. when shadow fiend is level 1 his damage is very low and he has no souls and can't raze. between levels 1 and 3 you need to be overly aggressive in harassing him and even standing behind his creep wave so that he cannot get last hits and very limited exp. once you do this he gets very behind and you win.
if you just sit back at level 1 and 2 and let him get last hits, he accumulates souls and you've essentially lost the lane.
Just call ya teamate pawn him every 1 or 2 min, there's 60% of chance he rage quit in 10 min, there's another 20% chance he become a mid game ATM.
In the remaining 20% you are extremely unlucky, ya teamate feed him, and you get raped hard lol
If no one gank him... a farmed sf snowball pretty badly
Well, I just love to see sf get pawned so when I saw someone picked sf, he will get ganked start from 0 sec lol lol lol lol
buy stick and avoid walking into 3 razes
heroes without real slow/disables like sf cant kill unless you give them huge opening 2 do so due 2 retarded positioning
you cannot just sit there and farm against him
when you lane against sf, your goal is kill him or get killed
when you cannot kill him alone call your teamate to pawn him
there's hardly any better target than a low level sf early in the game
playing safe isn't going to work
op listen to this next time you are about 2 face sf mid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLNkIM7pcYE
then this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugR-Iyp-e1k
then this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrYXGwMZrV4
Get a good creep block and its really easy to beat him. If he thought last hitting was hard, now he has to do it uphill. And that's not even bringing into the fact that he's a hero with no disables or escapes, so a solo kill on him is very likely, and sets him back really far.
Heroes like Batrider and Puck can literally just kill him when they hit level 6. Heroes with stuns should try to gank him when he's in the river.
killing him at lv 6 is too slow... once sf reach lv 3 he can shadowaze the creeps, he still get the farm he needs, you must shutdown him early
he can farm the neutral creeps with shadowaze too, so stop him from farming is virtually impossible
creep block is extremely extremely important
if creep on his side of the river, it will make attempts to kill him much much harder......
counter pick is also good lol
get something like husker sb bat lol
All you need is KILL him
I'm not saying wait until level 6 to go aggressive, I'm saying you literally get a free kill at level 6 even if you're terrible
"Pick heroes that can harass with 1 hit spells like qop, viper, bloodseeker. Just put those dots on him and then easily deny his creeps."
bullshit, or mb at ur lvl
yea, but a reasonable player won't do that...
lyou don't hang around mid half hp while something like a lv 6 lion is missing right ?
most likely they will go somewhere safer to farm
they will ward, and many things lol
indeed if you can chase him away with bat, get a blink dagger in 10+ min, you literally won the lane :D
dota is a team play game :D
pudge mah friend, at lvl 3 with a lvl 2 hook and lvl 1 rot you can kill him, since sf is rly squishy first 10 minutes or so
SF against TA is actually a balanced match up due to the range advantage. A good SF can position well enough to bully TA away from denying even before getting damage from souls, and an experienced players will trigger aggro to pull low hp creeps away before TA can deny them. If you're good at last hitting you might want to take Psi Blades at level 1 instead of Refract because last hitting via denying creeps effectively extends your range a fair bit.
Towards later levels (5 onwards) it becomes a game of trading farm. SF won't be able to stop you from farming but neither can you stop him if he chooses to commit razes. Overall TA should get more farm out of the lane unless SF bullies TA too much before later levels of Refract.
Playing against SF is not so easy for melee heroes. A good SF will come out top from trading hits due to the ranged advantage unless you have a means to shrug off harassment like Bloodseeker. Unless you have damaging skills that punish bad positioning such as Slark, you will find it difficult or close to impossible to stop him from farming. Same thing applies for ranged heroes. Storm, QoP, Puck etc won't be able to stop him from farming once he gets enough souls, but they have the range and nukes to bully him out of the lane before that happens. Get the better block, and have a very good awareness of the degree of harassment you can get away with.
again a pudge dont do shit vs sf. the only counter to sf are ta invo, rest works vs lowskilled sf, a good one dont get outpositioned. ever .
A high skilled SF can outplay a TA also. There are other options like Bat who can bully SF out of the lane. Winning the SF ultimately depends on rotations from the supports; a good SF will not get out-skilled from the lane matchup alone.
"how to lane vs sf mid"
well first you have to think about the hero you feel like playing.
then announce in ally chat 'solo mid please'
pick a hero and proceed to the middle lane where you gonna meat SF in 2 minutes or so.
congratulation, you are now successfully laning vs SF mid.
A good one doesn't get out positioned ever, um ok, cus no one ever makes mistakes in dota. At very least a qop can sit there and get xp then go gank. As long as you don't feed mid you can make it up in other lanes.
playing ultra aggressive before he gets level 3 so you can zone him out, depending on your hero ofcourse. And later levels most SF's will do some raze farming, therefore pushing out his lane so he can either go grab rune or stack neutrals. keep the lane on ur hill when that happens, and when he comes back he will be on your hill. Get support to gank and sf's generally drop pretty quick.
发表评论请登录
I very rarely go mid as someone else takes it most of the time and i feel kinda rusty, but sometimes i just have to or other think i'm going mid, and so far i have badly lost every single time i have had to lane aganist this hero. It feels simply impossible to stop him from getting any last hits even though he has really low damage at first, and once he gets a few of these, his damage becomes too high to stop him in lane. So what could possibly i do if i just have to lane aganist him in middle? You can check my last game to see how it's like for me: http://dotabuff.com/matches/376947130