General DiscussionHow much dmg do TA's psi blades do?

it's just 100% afaik

Just like cleave, it gets reduced only by the primary target (armor type/amount or magic immunity)

the units behind it take (the already reduced damage) as pure damage

^ Psi blades do not work like cleave. The spilled damage is the same as the damage dealt to the primary target while cleave damage is independent of the damage dealt to the primary target. For example, the spill damage off a target with guardian angel will be almost nothing while the damage cleaved to units around the primary target will be 35% or whatever of your normal damage.

oh got it

@Satellizer

What you're saying is true, but then what you say beneath it makes it sound like you don't understand how cleave works. Hint: deso and AC on kunkka for the purposes of amplifying his cleave does nothing for his cleave.

The cleave damage is reduced by armor type of the unit being cleaved with the following rules: no reduction for all armor types except fortified (on siege wagons and buildings). An example:

Let's say there are two heroes, X and Y. You hit X with Kunkka and Y gets the cleave damage. X and Y both have 20% armor reduction. Your total damage for the hit is 100 (with the tidebringer addition as well as items and base damage).

X: He isn't being cleaved, so he receives 80 damage. The 20% armor reduction works.
Y: He receives 100 damage since his portion is cleave.

Strategy example:
Suppose an enemy creature is standing next to X and there is also Y. What target do you hit?
Answer: Hit the creature to inflict cleave damage (that bypasses armor) to both heroes. Then start smacking one of the heroes.

So on TA if you hit a creep for 100 dmg and a hero is standing behind it, the hero will take 100 dmg?

^exactly

Deso doesn't work that way then?
I saw a lot of discussions about that, and I didn't exactly know what to say

Many thanks for the explanation.

If TA has Desolator and hits an enemy, the enemies hit by psiblades will NOT get the Desolator debuff.

Yea I know about that, talking about the deso x cleave interaction

Well, I don't know about psi blades, but for cleave (tidebringer, battlefury, etc.), the desolator increases the damage taken by the primary target (who isn't being cleaved). The cleaved damage received by nearby enemies is unaffected by the armor reduction applied to the primary target and by how much damage the primary target takes. For most practical purposes, the cleaved enemies take the total amount of damage you have listed on your hero.

The only benefit desolator gives for a cleave hero is the extra damage. You deal more damage to the main target, the cleaved one receives a % of YOUR damage, not a % of the damage dealt to the main target.

"So on TA if you hit a creep for 100 dmg and a hero is standing behind it, the hero will take 100 dmg?"

No it does not
The damage gets reduced by the armor of the creep (lets say its 10%) so the hero takes 90 PURE damage

^no, that defeats the purpose of pure damage

If TA has 100 damage and she hits a creep with 0 armor, but the creep behind it has 99999 armor, the creep behind will STILL take 100 damage.

pure damage is a form of magical damage and it has nothing to do with how much armor some one has

it has nothing to do with how much anything anyone has. pure damage is dealt no matter what, the only things that stop pure damage are damage reduction from stuff like kunkka boat.

^ Wrong, magic inmunity blocks pure damage.

@wink

thats what i said lol
the damage however gets reduced by the 1st creeps armor that i assumed it is 10%

@Zano
true, but thats kinda out of the question since were talking about reduction, not immunity

@darkness
no it's not what you said because you said the creep behind will also reduce the damage. if the first creep takes 100 damage, the second creep will also take 100 damage.

@darkness but the guy said that the creep got damaged by 100, by that time it was already reduced

holy shit people.
ta hits the target (that target has armor), it deals the dmg to this unit with reduction (if the unit has armor)
target behind it will get hit for the same dmg first unit got hit. (this dmg is pure, so 2ndary unit armor is not taken into account)

IM SAYING THE SAME THING

I think people are saying wrong things about Kunkka cleave. It does 0 dmg if the enemy is guardian angeled... I even tested this,

People with Guardian Angel should still take damage.

DOTA 2 > create a lobby > enable cheats> start game
play kunkka -createhero npc_Dota_hero_templar -createhero npc_Dota_hero_omni enemy
-createhero npc_Dota_hero_omni enemy -lvlup 24 -levelbots 24 (-refresh and -wtf if needed)
problem solved.

they don't. it has been fixed. from dota where you get +9999 armor in d2 you actually get physical immunity.