uh why didnt u mention about how you can always cast blink dagger as long as you rearm it, even if you had taken damage before.
also what are the methods of placing march
I will be adding new information, don't worry. There's A LOT of stuff people need to know when playing Tinker - for example, which DPS skills are "blinkable" (eg Acid Spray is, but Rot isn't)
I actually have a question, lets say you go for the laser+hsm build, lets say you get your BoTs at 8 minutes, now you dont really have any points ( or maybe only one point ) into march so you cant flash farm, plus to get march at lvl 4 you will need a lot of exp that will be hard to get if you cant flash farm.
What i am trying to say is that even if you get bots at a good time after that unless you snowball A LOT you will farm slower than you would by going the march build right ?
I am asking this because i always do the same with tinker, i go for the laser+hsm build and i usually get BoTs pretty fast and i try to help my team by ganking, but my gpm and my farm is not as good as you would expect from a tinker.
Plus if you go the march build, how do you help your team if you lack early game, in other words does the march build still works if you have another heroes that requires farm in your team ?
we need spells description, else how the fuck am i supposed to learn tinker ?_? first guide or what
1. That's the main problem with the Laser+HSM and I personally don't like this build, but it's worth mentioning. However, you NEED to constantly seek for kills or you will get underfarmed. It's good if you have an aggressive lineup in your team.
2. You don't help your team early game. Your early game = farm BoT. The only help I give my team is ganking if I see a lane overextending or if I get a haste / invis rune. Invis rune is awesome with March because you can go behind enemy heroes and cast march there, so they can't avoid it.
Zelphin I have 4600 solo and 5k party.
45 degrees to the direction of the movement of the creeps.
Laser hsm build requires u to keep snowballing until u get ur lvl 4 of march.
March Laser build requires u to engage properly, how?
By exploiting the right moment to use march, sometimes it does loads of dmg to the enemy team, usually used as a counter-initiate to enemy ganks, and don't ever think about ganking.
RTZ is playing tinker atm http://www.twitch.tv/joindotacommunity and destroyed game one
Might try him soon
i think you should mention the merits of march build when its an enemy melee, since its much more unlikely to get burst kills with laser hsm
if going laser centric build perhaps withhold skill points. you can always dump all ur points into hsm if you sense a kill, or switch to march build when you see the game go south, or you lose mid.
also mention ethereal blade
I miss the day back then when tinker using bkb and change into Tank in wc3, fuc*ing big and awesome !
I remember before 6.72 when Tinker's Manta Illusions wouldn't disappear after every new activation.
-> If you're soloing mid, you should save 3~4 skill points. Sometimes people just forget that laser+Hsm build exists and underestimate your damage.
-> In lane phase, if you have bottle and a got hooked by a Pudge, just laser him, use bottle and hit. He probably will die cause he's a pudge picker
-> March doesn't work at the map edges.
and this is useful to know: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=121763
You made me want to learn this hero! Then I realised I suck, so nope...
But still, nice guide :D
Rearm: not much to say here, except: don’t get it at 6/11/16! You usually want to get Rearm at the level you get your BoT, unless you want to use it to farm a big stack, then it’s ok to get it at 6. At lv11, just don’t. First, you need all your 3 spells at lv4, they’re way more important than a 1 second boost on Rearm
STAHP. STAHP.
Better learn from dr.zlo http://dotabuff.com/players/87099727 because he isn't trench tier player on south america like the OP is
@ emptyJar
Care to explain....? The player you posted seems to like maxing laser first and rockets second in his last few games.... which is fine but certainly not the only way to play tinker (or even that common in the pro scene).
@ Empty Jar
http://dotabuff.com/matches/529691082/skills
That game he didn't do 6/11/16. STAHP STAHP!
I take laser and HSM maxed by 8 because the potential nuke damage is much greater earlier. It also lets you farm more safely since you can push the enemy out of lane.
I take one point of re-arm at 9 and then 14/16. March gets maxed last because I won't have BoT super early (Bottle, Soul Ring first). Dagger is absolutely core for positioning in the woods (especially shift-queue after BoT). You can safely re-arm and spam March when the enemy can't focus you.
As the guide says, if you get stunned, you're dead. I only use Tinker in teamfights when he can safely stay at range. I think Agh's makes him an even greater threat, but you should pick up Scythe first. When upgraded, you're guaranteed a rocket in a support's face in 5v5.
Also, Ethereal Blade is garbage on Tinker. Read your ability descriptions.
If you ever farm that, the game will have been won already. You should be getting Scythe after BoT, Soul Ring and Blink.
Only a hero like Nyx will realistically rush those items.
^^^^^^!!!!
http://dotabuff.com/players/10944786/heroes
IDK Stinkoman you have 1 play on tinker and is 0.00% wins. I'll trust sano's guide! Sorry buddy. Sano is at 70% win with tinker....
@ EmptyJar
I just didn't clearly see where the guy you posted didn't use the 6/11/16. No need to be an ass. Or maybe there is so it magnifies your millimeter digital peener. Good times had by all.
HD means NOTHING emptyjar
http://dotabuff.com/matches/497504048
^I lost that game, not my team, I did
btw stinkoman i am pretty sure sing sano hns and a shitload of tinker players disagree with you, but whatever man whatever
EmptyJar, I'll link you a dr._.zlo video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEanuJpgUL0
Now I want you to tell me these players he's killing are very good players. If you really do believe that, then I'm sorry for you.
I never said I'm pro, but I know I'm good with Tinker and I play in a very high MMR environment. It's SA, but it's still better than most players.
btw, it's funny because you say something like "oh he plays on South America that's trash server" then you link a guy who plays in Russia, like what the fuck?
He plays eu west. Btw, his video is terrible, but what can you expect from a video of that type? My point was - at his peak he was constantly playing on page 1 against players like funnik and so on.
Ill be with you shorty sano! Having a few mouse issues~~
Oh can you Tweet/Post a comment on my wall in steam so I can syntax this out? Just copy your entire post, and use This website to link it for me? This way I can see what edits you've already done.
Soultrap I think he did it because he was crucial to his team and every time he died he needed to get back as soon as possible, so Bloodstone helped a lot there. However, I'm not sure if it was worth it since he still died a lot and had to buyback multiple times - his Bloodstone constantly dropped below 8 charges and it only surpassed this value when they won the game.
The editing is Melody.) I'm just Communicating and Managing)
Also - I realli like your guide. We used to pick Tinker during our semi-pro times for a very cheesy yet very strong push strat. Won OslikGaming with it in Ukrainian ESWC quals. OslikGaming actually won [A] once or twice, so that's one of the things I'm probably the most proud of in my career.))
Anyway, my former teammate is a 5.2k Tinker player and looking at him play I always wondered how he manages to do so many things so fast and was generally amazed. Now I at least know the theory behind it)
Thanks KawaiiSocks. And yeah the amazing thing about Tinker is that, along with other heroes like Invoker, he has a very high skillcap so playing well with him means you're gonna be constantly doing nice plays and dealing with many refreshable active items is just awesome.
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[color=orange][size=18]Introduction[/size][/color]
Ok, first of all, I won’t waste my time describing what skills do, their mana costs or cooldowns. You can visit this link for this kind of information. This guide is aimed to help decent players who want to have a more deep insight of this awesome hero – not beginners, though these may, and probably will, find it helpful as well.
[color=orange][size=18]Which are Tinker’s goals in a game? How can he contribute to his team’s victory? And why should I play Tinker?[/size][/color]
[*]Strong push power due to March, and even better counterpush power.
[*]Insane hero damage potential in teamfights and ganks. Probably has the highest hero damage average at the end of a match among all Dota heroes.
[*]Constant global presence after Boots of Travel. Probably the biggest global presence in the game, maybe beaten only by Nature’s Prophet.
[*]Very high mobility due to Blink / ForceStaff + Rearm.
[*]Can flash farm better than most mid heroes, spamming March at different lanes, neutral camps and ancients.
[*]Fun to play: of course this is subjective, but people usually find Tinker a very fun to play hero due to his original concept and the power of rearming his skills and item cooldowns.
Of course, as any other hero, except that f***ing pre-6.80 Earth Spirit,
[color=#ff0000][size=18]Tinker has weaknesses :[/size][/color]
[*]One of the squishiest heroes in the game. If any enemy hero lays a finger on you after the early game, you’re pretty much dead.
[*]High risk if playing Laser + HSM build, because if you fail to impact the early game your BoT will be delayed.
[*]When playing the safer build - March build - doesn’t have the high gank potential you would want in a mid hero.
[*]Easy to kill at early levels. Smoke ganks are extremely deadly.
[size=18][color=orange]Skills:[/color][/size]
[color=#D32CE6]Laser[/color]: one of the strongest single target nukes in the game. 320 pure damage + 3 second blind. Useful in-lane to harass + prevent enemy last hit / deny, to finish enemies in ganks / teamfights and to escape from tight situations. Keep in mind these 3 seconds are extremely useful because this is the same time Blink Dagger stays broken when hit by an enemy.
[color=#D32CE6]Heat-Seeking Missiles[/color]: Very useful to spam from far away during pushes / counterpushes or before clashes. Can also be used to finish running enemies. Especially good together with Bounty Hunter (Track), Bloodseeker (Thirst) and pretty much anything that gives you vision of the enemy. Doesn't work on ethereal units!
[color=#D32CE6]March of the Machines[/color]: Sick spell. Gives you high farm power, and it’s undoubtedly one of the strongest teamfight skills in the game. Fighting under March is like fighting under Death Prophet’s ult. Fighting under 2 Marches is fighting in hell. Fighting under 3 Marches… oh, well. The best way to position March is either perpendicular to the direction the creeps are walking or diagonal. Never cast in the same direction, as you will waste a good amount of the spell. The same goes for teamfights.
[color=#D32CE6]Rearm[/color]: not much to say here, except: don’t get it at 6/11/16! You usually want to get Rearm at the level you get your [color=#2e8b57]BoT[/color], unless you want to use it to farm a big stack, then it’s ok to get it at 6. At lv11, just don’t. First, you need all your 3 spells at lv4, they’re way more important than a 1 second boost on Rearm (and +100 mana cost, which hurts a lot in early levels). At lv16, get it pretty much only if you have [color=#2e8b57]sheepstick[/color] (for perma-hex purposes). Otherwise don’t. You won’t have the mana to use it multiple times, it won’t be worth all that mana cost. If I don’t have a [color=#2e8b57]hex[/color], I usually get it around level 19-21. Some people think it’s crazy to get stats over Rearm, but it’s not at all.
[size=18][color=orange]Skill builds:[/color][/size]
First of all, you will notice it is mandatory to have 1 level in Laser in every build. This is because the blind is crucial for your survival. Also remember the first point on Rearm depends a lot on how’s the game going and how you’re playing Tinker.
[color=#D32CE6]Standard March build[/color]: QEEWEWREWWQQQR. Laser at lv1, focus March, HSM secondary skill. This is the standard build for farming your BoT safely. Having Missiles over Laser is good for fighting from far away and damaging multiple enemies. This is not the best option for [color=#ff0000]killing[/color], though. Your burst damage won’t be high til you have Laser maxed.
[color=#D32CE6]Laser+HSM build[/color]: QWQWQWRQWEEEER. High risk high reward build. You will have the highest burst damage in the game at lv6, but if you don’t find kills, or worse, if you [color=#ff0000]die[/color], your [color=#2e8b57]BoT[/color] is getting heavily delayed. You will lack the farm March gives you, so be cautious. However, if you find early kills, you can snowball faster than light.
[color=#D32CE6]March-Laser build[/color]: QEQEEQREQWWWWR. It’s kinda weird that you won’t have HSM until lv10, but believe me, I started using this build by myself, only by intuition, and liked it a lot. Mostly because this mixes the farming potential of the March build with the burst damage from Laser. However, I must say you need to play Tinker well to use it correctly, since you need to get closer to fights to use Laser than you would get with the standard March build.
[size=18][color=orange]Items:[/color][/size]
Starting items are 100% subjective to the game and to personal preferences. I like starting with [color=#2e8b57]Null[/color] + [color=#2e8b57]Tango[/color], or [color=#2e8b57]Circlet[/color] + [color=#2e8b57]Tango[/color], or even [color=#2e8b57]Boots[/color] (extremely useful against Pudge).
[color=#2e8b57]Bottle:[/color] You need a Bottle to keep your mana/hp up and maybe control runes. However, Tinker is not one of the best rune control mid heroes. The best way to control rune is to use March at xx:45 to push the wave and force the enemy to choose between rune and creeps. (remember you can’t do this with Laser+HSM – this skill build lacks a lot of rune control) Finally, you can always bottle crow if you want to.
[color=#2e8b57]Soul Ring:[/color] You don’t need a Soul Ring at all in the early game, even if you’re stacking camps, but there are good players who like getting it before [color=#2e8b57]BoT[/color] to help clearing the big stacks. I usually get my SR only after the BoT.
(New edit): after 4 months, I now usually go for Soul Ring before BoTs.
[color=#2e8b57]Boots of Travel:[/color] This is your first big item and you want this as early as possible. BoT time: before 7 min: excellent, 7-8 min: good, 8-9 min: decent, 9-10 min: average, over 10 min: bad. After the [color=#2e8b57]BoT[/color], if you don't have a [color=#2e8b57]Soul Ring[/color], you want to get one as soon as possible.
Your next item after [color=#2e8b57]Boots of Travel[/color] must be a mobility item, aka [color=#2e8b57]Dagger[/color] or [color=#2e8b57]Force[/color]. Well, how to choose between these two? It’s actually feeling and game sense, but I can tell you that FS is extremely important against heroes such as Clockwerk, Pudge, Mirana, Invoker, Undying, or anything that can [color=#ff0000]disable[/color] you / cancel your Dagger from far away. Remember you can go for both items for max mobility, it’s worth it in many cases.
After mobility, you’ll get your first big core item, which may be: Hex, Dagon 5 or Shivas.
[color=#2e8b57]Hex:[/color] usually the best choice, even more in high level games. However, Hex works better the better your team is. If you’re playing a pub and you’re feeling your team isn’t helping you, you can’t trust them or if they are just feeding, maybe it’s better to go another item. Hex is basically core against some heroes such as AM and Storm.
[color=#2e8b57]Dagon 5:[/color] build for fun that’s actually very powerful in pubs, I’d say it’s as powerful as Hex unless you’re playing on a ranked 5k+ environment.
[color=#2e8b57]Shivas:[/color] underrated item nowadays, but extremely powerful in teamfights and increases even more your farming potential (and gives you some nice armor – which probably won’t save you if you’re caught, but still nice).
[color=#D32CE6]Next big items:[/color] [color=#2e8b57]Hex, Dagon 5, Shivas, EB, Linkens, Aghanim, Manta, Veil, BKB[/color].
[color=#2e8b57]Aghs:[/color] it's a good item if: you have a good Bounty Hunter in your team, due to many enemies tracked, or if you're losing the game and need to hold constant pushes. As an aggressive item, it's decent, but not as good as the three cores I've mentioned.
[color=#2e8b57]Bloodstone:[/color] very important as your 6th item because Tinker has a hard time playing without Soul Ring, so this gives you lots of mana to sustain you during the fights and also reduces your death time which can be huge in a tight game.
PS.: My friend HNS, who is a better Tinker than me, says [color=#2e8b57]Midas[/color] is a nice optional item after BoT, and I do think it may be cool, but I haven’t tested it yet.
[size=18][color=orange]Gameplay and play-style:[/color][/size]
Your main goal at the early stage is to get your BoT. You need to do whatever you think it’s the best way to grab that gold. Farming in lane, stacking ancients, ganking, whatever. Keep in mind Laser is very strong to control the lane, as the blind will prevent two or three hits from the enemy. Be careful not to die, as this is the most important thing in this stage. If you think you may [color=#ff0000]die[/color] in the process, then don’t gank. Play safe.
Now you have your BoT so start TPing around the map, always focusing to accomplish something: get a kill, push a tower, defend a tower. Always TP at safe spots, preferably in the fog of war, unless there is a clash going on, then TPing in the middle is ok if you think it’s safe (enemy disables on cooldown).
[color=#8847FF]Know how to use your spells:[/color]
The secret of bursting down an enemy is to minimize their reaction window. This is maybe the most important information I’m giving you in this guide. Example: You see QoP farming, you’re in the fog. You have Laser and Missile ready. How do you gank her? In order to do the best burst, you need to hit all your spells at the same time. So you stay in the fog, cast HSM in the fog, walk next to her and Laser her in a way that the Laser and the HSM hit at THE SAME TIME, which means she won’t have any time between the first and the second nuke to react. Another example: you have a Dagger and Dagon and you see AM farming. HSM from fog -> Blink in when HSM is almost hitting AM -> Laser -> Dagon (Dagon has no cast time so it’s better to use it after Laser). Knowing how to do this is the difference between a bad Tinker and a good Tinker.
[color=#8847FF]Farming with March:[/color]
TPing to a lane is not always a good choice, since enemies can be around. After you have a Blink you can TP shift blink to the fog and use March in a safer way, but it's still a bit dangerous, especially if they have heroes such as Storm, Clock (who can jump on you), Windrunner and Mirana (who can reveal your position). If you're not feeling safe enough to farm in a lane you can just go farm neutrals. Near the t2 you can hit both the big and the medium camp with a single March. In the Radiant jungle, you can farm up to 3 camps at the same time if you cast March in the middle. In the Dire jungle, you can farm 2 camps near the t1 or the small camp together with lane creeps. And of course, there are the ancients.
[color=#8847FF]Fight safely:[/color]
Remember what I said in the beginning of the guide. If any hero touches you, you’re [color=#ff0000]dead[/color]. If you get stunned, you’re dead. If your Dagger is down, you’re dead. So you need to use your skills and items FROM THE FOG, aka inside tree areas or stuff like that. In a teamfight, your duty is to deal as much damage to all enemy heroes (or hex them if it’s the case), so mainly just stay in a safe spot sending Marches and HSM. If you’re think it’s safe to do so, you can blink in to burst someone down, but keep in mind it’s not worth a death, unless it’s a farmed carry or whatever.
[color=#8847FF]Get your fingers ready:[/color]
Playing Tinker late game demands good skill and fast clicking with many active items. I’ve had games where I had BoT, Dagger, FS, Hex, EB and Dagon – this means 6 active items, and you need to be ready to use them all correctly and as fast as possible. One miss-click and you may die. It's vital to be familiar with shift commands as well, because they are necessary to do some plays such as TP + Blink in fog, TP + Hex/Dagon + Blink, etc. However, I can assure you that this is an absolutely rewarding experience and the thing I love the most about Tinker.
[color=#8847FF]Note about Shift Blink:[/color]
It's possible to cast TP shift Blink even when under DPS spells, but not all of them. For example, you can do this with Acid Spray, or with Radiance. However, you CAN'T do this with Rot or Macropyre. You will TP and just die, so pay attention. The "blinkable" spells are the ones who deal damage per second, and the "unblinkable" deal damage per milisecond.
[size=18][color=orange]Tinker as #1 role:[/color][/size]
Tinker can be used as a #1 role aka carry for his team, playing in a safelane or aggressive trilane. He's actually very strong in a trilane environment due to his killing potential and his need to farm early. I just played as a standin for some friends in a amateur championship yesterday. We had Invoker, Mirana, SD and Nyx. We last picked Tinker and went aggressive tri with Tinker SD Nyx versus a Lone Druid, leaving Invoker in mid and Mirana solo top. This way we managed to completely shut down the enemy Lone Druid who was solo bot and I got a 6 minute Boots of Travel. Went for the standard March build because we didn't need all the nukes in lane, as we were managing to control and kill without them. March helped a lot against ganks coming from the two enemy supports, when they dove at me I just casted March and got banished by my ally SD. Two roaming supports just can't handle a lv2-3 March. I didn't die once in the whole game and my GPM was absurd. By minute 23 I had my BoT, Bottle, Soul Ring, Forcestaff and Hex. Liquid also played recently against Na'Vi with a safe lane Tinker, with their Lifestealer in the long lane.
[size=18][color=orange]Helpful allies:[/color][/size]
[color=#D32CE6]Bounty Hunter:[/color] Tracks down enemies so you can throw HSM at them even when they're in the fog. This is actually very deadly if you have a Blink Dagger, because you can keep spamming HSM and blinking forward multiple times. [color=#D32CE6]Bloodseeker[/color] is good at this, too.
[color=#D32CE6]Beastmaster:[/color] You can TP to his hawk, so this increases a lot your global threat. He can put the hawk inside some trees behind the enemies so you can ambush them. You can also ask him to share units with you so you can control the hawk yourself. Other heroes with nice summons to TP are [color=#D32CE6]Lone Druid[/color], [color=#D32CE6]Invoker[/color], [color=#D32CE6]Visage[/color], [color=#D32CE6]Nature's Prophet[/color] and [color=#D32CE6]Warlock[/color].
[color=#D32CE6]Lifestealer:[/color] Tinker Naix bomb not cool to deal with.
[size=18][color=orange]Dangerous enemies:[/color][/size]
[color=#D32CE6]Storm Spirit:[/color] Your biggest threat. If he's being played by a good player, you're in serious trouble. This guy can jump on you and kill you easily when you TP to a side lane, even if you shift+blink to a fog. Orchid is deadly against you. You need to play very safe and get a Hex to deal with him.
[color=#D32CE6]Anti-Mage:[/color] Has a Blink to initiate or chase you, burns mana and his ult can cancel your TP. Before Manta he's not that dangerous because you can just blind him, but after he's got it you need to be careful. Hex is very important against him, because he needs to be disabled and he's hard to burst down.
[color=#D32CE6]Clockwerk:[/color] Can initiate you from very far away with his hook. Battery assault is a nightmare for someone who needs to TP back to base. Cogs are deadly and burn mana as well. Highly recommended to build Forcestaff against him. Also he likes to go blademail which is very annoying against you.
[color=#D32CE6]Viper:[/color] Corrosive skin damages anyone who deals damage to Viper, you know what this means? Your dagger will always be broken when Viper is getting hit by your March or Missiles, so be careful about this! And of course, he's one of the most annoying heroes to solo against.
[size=18][color=orange]Nice Tinker videos:[/color][/size]
[*]Some highlights of a game played by me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_0OyifmMM - This illustrates well how the Laser + HSM struggles if you don't snowball, but we manage to win a 82 min game vs Gyro.
[*]SingSing 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_52IWCp5CA
[*]SingSing 2, heaviest game ever: part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sgw3l-en68 / part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up81avAwNTA
[*]Dota 2 with Lasers, HNS Tinker highlights: vol.1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5GqWX3uT4U / vol. 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXXzfkXN6B8
[*]Qojqva amazing highlights Liquid vs Na'Vi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efREwVyiyg4
[*]Merlini talking about THE FLUX, how to use march properly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obsfjZ0K2G0
You can as well use this thread to discuss anything about the hero and I may answer questions if you want to.
My English is good, but not perfect, so please tell me if there's something weird or hard to understand in this
freaking wall of textGuide.~edit~ : Spell checked (and maybe some syntaxing =] ) by [Url=http://dotabuff.com/players/120827563][color=#ee82ee]Melody[/color][/url], No worries man, you're fine. ^^
Sano has been playing dota 2 since around 2009, even some of which was successful in amateur leagues. One of his favorites, as well as his most played hero is Tinker. At the time this was written he currently has a 70% winrate, and a 5.0 K/D/A with Tinker.
(Closing remark edited in by melody)
[*]Note by sano: Thanks a lot for the edits Melody, guide looks a lot better now. Also thanks for encouraging people to contribute to the forums as you're doing right now, I think you're the first user to do so since the beginning of Dotabuff.