if you stay out of cleave range you're playing his game and he's keeping you out of cs range. 1 cleave attack every x seconds doesn't beat the harass of a ranged hero.
you deal with cleave harass by bottle crowing i guess. that or go mek.
if the kotl is farming slowly, then maybe you go mek + force instead of midas + force? maybe even midas + mek, having lv 11 before anyone else can be a game changer.
@Androgynous Noted, thank you.
Any idea what the average farm on an OD should be in this kind of matchup? I'm looking for a target to set.
u dont have to avoid all his cleaves but u should avoid it when u can
the radius is only 400, but it seems larger because its 400 radius of all affected targets.
IE, u have to be 400 radius from the range creep if its within your range
his lvl 3 cleave always puts the range creep in deny range, so it should work against him instead of u
the aoe is not centered at the creep, but bordered by the creep that got hitten
so if it's 400 radius than it's ~800 range cleave.
Just banish him when he try to last hit, so he cann't both last hit and cleave.
The average last hit you should have against a kunkka is close to 100% you have more damage, and can banish him everytime he comes for a deny/last hit.
The only reason to put kunkka mid against od is cause he can continue to harrass even with no mana, but if you crow bottle or rush mecka, he is worst than almost any other usual middle you can face.
@bruised wayne
thats not how cleave works. cleave is essentially twice the radius, because the point at where kunkka attacks a target is the perimeter of a circle. cleave creates a circle in front of the target attacked with a radius of the cleave amount. in tidebringer's case it's 500 or 600 at rank 4. so the maximum distance of the cleave is actually the diameter of the circle, in tidebringer's case it's 1000 or 1200 distance away, so you'd have to be barely in xp range to dodge it.
this picture should help explain cleave.
http://i.imgur.com/5leWI.jpg
farm should still be the same on OD, if u want to start off low, maybe 4 last hits and 2 denies per minute? kunkka does better than most since tidebringer gives free harass and extra last hit damage which can exceed OD's damage even with stolen int, but he can't win the lane with only tidebringer. he just doesn't lose the lane as bad as other heroes.
Okay, got it. Will get a bottle first on my next game with OD, see how it works out. Thanks for the input guys!
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http://dotabuff.com/matches/786299118
I just lost a game because I fucked up my lane badly. I was OD against a Kunkka and I got solo killed before either of us hit 6, allowing him to snowball.
Two glaring mistakes I made:
1. Prioritizing hex over BKB.
2. Letting him deny a shit ton of creeps during the laning stage.
Looking for some tips here:
1. How do I deal with his cleave harass? I tried my best to stay out of its AOE whenever it procs, but he still managed to dish out hell.
2. Was it a bad idea to go Midas first? I had a KOTL on my team and Tiny was doing well, so I figured I'd go for it so I could catch up with Kunkka.
Please do point out any other mistakes you see. Thanks in advance.