( in ur bracket )
tiny = too op for lasthits so u have to not miss Lasthiting..
get fast bottle
at 4-5 lvl u should be able to kill almost everyone with toss - stun combo
get fast dagger and then u should be able to snowball and instakill all supports
go make aga now for extra powa
profit
kappa?
Wtf dude, tiny just get fast blink dagger and you'll see your kills piling up and GG 20 mins. Blink > combo = kill. Repeat 20 times. Easiest hero of my lyfe.
Get:
1. Stoutshield, branches, tangos
2. Bottle
3. Brown Boots
4. Soulring (!) (It allows you to spam. If you are at full mana your combo costs effectivly 70 mana)
5. Boots: Phase, BoT or Treads. I do not like castertiny, but thats just my preference
6. Shadowblade (or dagger up to you). I prefer shadowblade, esp in your bracket supports wont buy gem/dust/sentries too fast. You force them to buy it (costs gold). Shadowblade gives you more burst (+175) and much needed attackspeed.
7. Aga: Coreitem
8. AC: Coreitem, fixes your armorproblem, gives attackspeed
9. Butterfly/Manta/Mom/Crit/Heart whatever you want.
Watch merlini playing Tiny. He is a monster on the hero.
get treads and learn to tread swap. you can benefit much more from bottle because your int is so low without the treads and the 24 damage phase offers is negligible compared to the dps that 30 attack speed offers you.
also if you're trying to maximise combo damage going 2-3-0-0 by 5 and then 2-4-0-1 by 7 isn't the best way to go. 3-2-0-0 offers the best damage at level 5 because avalanche's damage gets doubled by toss, therefore each point in avalanche adds 80x2 damage (160) whereas each point into toss only adds 75, or 75x1.2 (90) if you actually toss your kill target
at lvs 7 and 8 you want ranks 3 and 4 of toss instead of rank 4 avalanche because the 4th lv in avalanche only adds 40 damage (80 extra damage if doubled by toss) damage whereas another point into toss adds at least 75 damage (101 if you toss the person).
if you're radiant mid lane, you can nuke the wave and then go stack the medium camp at 55, then go to the bottom rune. or stack on the odd minutes, that way when the rune spawns, you can go get it after nuking the wave just to make sure you get it first.
agree with 9v1 on soul ring
even if you're getting bottle, i think soul ring is still worth getting, especially on treads. with proper switching (and/or item dropping) you can almost get one full combo out of a single soul ring usage. active soul ring on treads to lose the least amount of HP, and because you're not on int you also get more mana when you switch to int after activating soul ring.
you can always sell it later, and because it's so cheap, it pays for itself very quickly (few minutes tops) by letting you nuke down neutral camps or creep waves. lets say you buy soul ring for 800g, and it earns you 400g because the extra mana you get extra creeps. when u sell it, you get 400g back, so you lose no gold, so you have literally gotten free extra XP.
uhm usually u just need bottle boots -> treads. treads switching is great on shit tier mana heros like tiny, plus IAS is great.
bottle->treads->blink->aghs most likely ur best bet
I wouldent be able to miss cs with tiny even if i try he hits too hard, I would got trads if in safe lane farm, phase too good for farming. I feel like blink is like 60% gold from aghs and with aghs farm just doubles. Also its not toss stun cambo its stun toss cambo, was asking from ppl that know tiny. It works by stun hitting there for several sekonds and after toss enemy hero hits floor and gets hit again. I did read that 2 3 is the way to go as toss dmg goes up too much being more then being hit twice from lvl 3 stun. read that from reddit ty Androgynous. Also good idead to cambo then stack, i would usually look to gank. I do go dagger sometimes but then think of what if i had aghs now. With phase I can come rlly fast to enemy and cambo no problem. FyyQ, I dont like the way you respond, be nice, nobody will bite on you here. 9v1 Shadowblade dsnt work for me, I get a free kill next time there is sentry. Blink is better. I do love ac, hearth, mom. My last item usualy is deadlus it makes me crit like pa.
> I wouldent be able to miss cs with tiny even if i try he hits too hard, I would got trads if in safe lane farm, phase too good for farming
treads are better because you don't get dps. you just said right now that you wouldn't miss cs because he hits too hard i.e. his damage is high enough. what do you need phase for then. chances are you're going to miss last hits because your hero attacks too slow, not because he lacks the damage to get last hits.
fyi the way the combo works is that tiny has a 0 cast time so spells are casted immediately once the command is issued. however avalanche has a 0.25s delay, and that is the time for you to avalanche (assuming no lag). if you avalanche too late, then the toss ends early so the latter instances of avalanches don't get damaged while if you avalanche too early (or toss too late, same thing), then the first instance(s) of avalanche damage are not doubled because the rocks hit before the unit is tossed into the air - avalanche deals 4 instances of 25/45/65/75 damage.
if you want proof.
3 avalanche - 260 damage
2 toss - 150 damage.
avalanche + toss combo, 260 damage doubled to 520, toss damage increased by 20% to 180, totalling 700 damage.
2 avalanche - 180 damage
3 toss - 225 damage
avalanche + toss combo, 180 damage doubled to 360, toss damage increased by 20% to 270 damage, resulting in 630 damage.
-------
also lets compare your lv 7 skill build, which is 2-4-0-1, to 3-3-0-1.
2 avalanche - 180 damage
4 toss - 300 damage
avalanche damage doubled to 360, toss damage increased by 35% (due to grow) to 405, combo damage is therefore 765.
3 avalanche - 260 damage
3 toss - 225 damage
avalanche damage doubled to 520, toss damage increased by 35% to 303.75 (304). combo damage is 824.
shadow blade gives you much needed dps. since you'll transition into a carry later on the extra attack speed is extremely useful. eventually the enemy are going to wise up to your tricks even with a blink instead of shadow blade. because your combo damage is static, so eventually they're gonna survive the combo with enough items and/or levels.
if the enemy spend gold on detection then you simply spend more time farming rather than ganking, or know where they warded by checking your opponents inventories. if it's a dust then it doesn't matter, you're using the sb to initiate, not to escape.
its not the best farming item but because tiny lacks so much attack speed, it's not super bad, because it also gives you extra movement speed (and we all know mobility results in increased farm)
lv 8 the skill build is the same 3-4-0-1, but there are timing windows at lvs 3, 5 and 7 where you can potentially miss out on kills because you simply pressed ctrl + W instead of ctrl + Q
4-4-0-0 will also technically do more magic damage but that's not taking into account that you'll attack once or twice with the bonus damage of grow.
doesnt grow also add damage to the toss? anyway yea for sure get ur r whenever possible
treads gives more dps, better for bottle with tread switching and tiny with this build needs mana. phase is nice for mobility but u have to get drums with it to make up for the shitty stats
-> http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/942791815 (this how you play now)
-> http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/832052508 (this how you will roll after i'm done with you | stacked with castdown (2061mmr))
yeah i have time this week.
I usually go for aghs after bottle phase, lots of stats, after that sometimes manta sometimes bkb or ac
problem is going straight aghanims u still do no damage cuz u hit once every 1000 seconds
phase is good for the mobility but id go phase drums with it
@want booster
yes, grow increases toss' damage, but only if the unit is tossed. the change is only 15% from 0 points into grow to 1 point into it.
at lv 6 when ur 3-2-0-0 then ur getting 15% of 150 damage which is only 22.5 extra damage, whereas levelling toss again gives you 90 more.
a 4-4-0-0 skill build will deal 960 damage with a qw combo compared to 824 of 3-4-0-1, but you're still better off getting grow because of the other stuff it gives (damage and movement speed) on top of increasing toss damage, whereas levelling toss obviously only increases toss damage, you don't get anything else.
yeah, if you go phase and straight into aghs you have ridiculously low attack speed. that is why treads are incredibly good on tiny. because going from something like 80 attack speed to 110 is a 37.5% increase in dps which is huge for only 950g.
compared to treads on a high attack speed hero, for example. a hero with 300 attack speed getting 30 extra attack speed only gets a 10% increase in damage. hence why it's MUCH better to get attack speed on heroes who already have +damage steroids and vice-versa, you get +damage on heroes that already have high attack speed
whereas if you go from hitting for ~120 to hitting for 144 thats only a 20% increase in damage and it's not even reliable either because a lot of the time you're gonna cancel your attacks because you attack move too soon.
thats what i basically said earlier. you do get more magic damage from going 4-4-0-0 but overall you get more dps from 3-4-0-1 because of grow attack damage.
if you are using shadow blade instead of blink you also get a free attack(&+175 damage) when you brake invisibility, since you aren't reveled until after the attack connects at which point you cancel your back swing with avalanche+toss. Even so I am still not sure how I feel about shadow blade over blink or just rushing aghs.
@ OP I wouldn't go for vlads or AoM after aghs+AC at that point your inventory slots are limiting you more than your money so you might as well go for bigger items. Butterfly and manta are both really good on tiny and BKB will often be required if you are trying to carry.
Agree, just sometimes you know you gonna win within next fight and going chezzy items))
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Its my most favorite hero and I m 3200 mmr, I'm not too good safelane tiny. I like to go mid and gank top and bot come mid get farm making sure all lanes are winning. I go phase bottle phase boots, aghs then what ever is best. Just wonna see if there is anything I can do better and improve my Tiny gameplay. TY No Flamarinos.