General Discussionfew questions on some heroes and meta

I always tell people Troll Warlord is still really good.

(Berserkers rage no longer provides +15 damage)

That nerf was huge, but needed. That 15 damage was basically a free fucking quelling blade, so imagine having an actual quelling blade on top of that? Yeah, easy mode last hits, so it needed to get nerfed.

But even with his Q no longer giving 15+ damage, that still doesn't change the fact that you can STILL buy quelling blade on him in 6.84, so that should make up for the 15 damage nerf. And it still doesn't change the fact that he's MELEE and RANGED (most heroes can't say the same) and can change to range ANYTIME he needs to reach for that creep that's just too far for him to reach with his melee mode in time, making him very versatile and flexible when it comes to last hitting. He can even harass heroes in ranged mode.

(Ranged and melee whirling Axes no longer provide vision)
This is whatever.

(Battle trance duration reduced from 7 to 5 seconds)
This is huge, but not THAT big, you just gotta time it more wisely. It only takes 5 seconds to melt an enemy with a farmed troll anyways. As far as towers go, just make sure they have no glyph and that your team mates are all hitting the tower to get the most out of it. (don't use it when a teammate is still a few feet away from the tower not hitting it, ping his ass, make him hit the tower)

(Beserkers rage is no longer removed on death)

This isn't even a nerf, it's just a neutral change i guess.

I DON'T CLAIM TO BE A TROLL MASTER or anything, these are just MY UNIMPORTANT <-- (bet you liked hearing that) THOUGHTS on the hero, so fuck off. As to why he isn't in the meta, isn't it obvious? It's about finishing early now. Fun pub hero though, most people can't deal with a fast farming Troll still. Thanks for reading.

Welp he comes online pretty fast, phase, RoA, HotD, BKB/SnY thats basically same as gyro, although gyro farms probably much more faster

1. He has poor survivability and is melee. Those things make him a big NO because in professional play you'll have abuse every advantage you can get. Now you probably think Leshrac and SF also have poor survivability but those heroes can build items that make them tankier (Bloodstone for Lesh/Mek for SF), but if you build items that make Ember tankier, he deals no damage.

2. Give TB back 315 ms in demon form and un-nerf illusions

3. Glimmer cape (this kites the Naix), Winter Wyvern (whatever Naix was born to do WW just memes it), Solar Crest fucks his shit up through Rage. If you get Blink you lose 2250 gold on an item that gives no damage and Naix is not like a Tiny who can instagib a hero in <1s.

4. Troll did get nerf, losing 15 damage in melee form + 2s of ult were akin to removing his balls. Jugg's DPS is not nerfed but he's no longer able to be played without a brain which is why many people gave up on him (their braindead ways of spamming Jugg no longer work). Axe's ultimate got memed which makes it harder to kill people.

Yeah, i think he's right about Juggernaut, he's still good, just not brain dead anymore, so people stopped playing him sadly, awesome character though. His nerf list is pretty huge if you look at all the nerfs he's gotten since November, then add them all up.

Troll is nerfed also through roshing via the quelling blade nerf. He cant do it earlier that way. Jugg is still good but there are better heroes atm.

I love tb and i can see him viable again just like amything in pubs, you just need space creators in your team to allow the enemy team to forget about you like qop sb etc, instead of farming like am prebf you just eat 1 or 2 towers. You can really rat that shit within 20 mins with just tread-aquila-drums. I just think his nerf to str gain in general makes him unviable vs most bursting heroes.

troll is not still good at all

the 15 damage nerf is HUGE at all points of the game, the vision nerf is even bigger, not to mention shit like rosh no longer affected by quelling and nerf to ult duration

"buy a quelling blade" as your solution to the damage nerf rofl. you still jungle way slower and have greatly reduced aggressive potential in the early game

@Yorkey

"(Ranged and melee whirling Axes no longer provide vision)
This is whatever."

If you think this is "whatever" you're clearly a pretty shitty player.

^indeed this vision gave me at least one or two extra kills per good games. Now you can juke troll.

People overreact to buffs and nerfs. Troll was great before they bug fixed his fervor, suddenly he shows up "buffed" in patch notes and people spam the shit out of him. So he gets nerfed, he's still fine, but never picked. Same with sniper. Axe and jug are still super popular in my games. Never see sniper though (3500).

Lifestealer is just way too easy to kite. Idk he's a weird hero, one of those that I hate playing against and always seems to do very well on the opposing team, but whenever he's on my team he stinks. Seems like they just load up on heroes like storm spirit, witch dr, lion, shadow shaman and cc the shit out of you or waste you with physical ults. I don't think he needs fixes, he's just situational.

To fix TB I think they don't want him to be a boring rat pusher so make him a decent fighter from level 1. Make reflection last 5.5 seconds at all levels and instead increase the slow per level at 45/50/55/60, increase range to 450, increase sunder range to 450, give him 100 more base hp.

@Kitrak
I cant see how he can get shitted by SF and lesh and be fine against qop >.<.
Sf is basically dead once ember hits 6...3x remnants and he is a gonner....same can happen to leshrac if he has no HP items till then...and qops is by far the only of this 3 heroes that can actually burst him down in a sec and by far can even zone him completly out with dagger/autoattacks, and if things get problematic she has the best chance of survival with blink out.

The biggest problem ember has is the same problem that kunkka has they cant manfight anything, they do have a steroid ability tidebringer/sleight of fist which deals the dmg for them but they r physically rly weak, so yea if SF has dominated him those first 4-5mins till he reaches 6 than ember cant rly kill him without a rune imo sfs autoattack will hurt alot and sf will probably tend to keep him always under 75% just incase he decides to go for the kill.

@Dire Wolf Tb is my favorite hero but buffing reflection might be a bit too OP as a HC in the early game.

He's a tougher hero to play because he doesn't have good escapability and when he hits lvls 6 to 11 he contributes near nothing to team fights. He's like AM in this way, except am can escape/iniate a pick-off very easily and am gets to jungle much quicker than he can. Really the fear is that if the early-mid game is going less than ideal for the team, it's a little bit closer to gg than with most other HC, so he's usually just too risky for people.

I think all he needs is a little bit more ms, I don't think Sunder should cost 200 mana at lvl 6, and maybe a slight buff to his str. I think his illusions are fine, and I don't have a problem with reflection because it stays a good spell throughout the game and is pretty helpful in early lane.

*Just want to add, the hero most that has most fallen off recently is FV. It's a shame (although better than seeing him played in all 10 top skilled games, but now lesh takes that place anyways....)

i used to have huge winrate on ember(72%). now im a sad boi.

altho probaby it was because of tilting and not shitty laning stage