General DiscussionRadiance, I need help understanding

Exactly, so basically u can tell the diffrence urself. When their lineup has enough early/mid game potential especially when they heavly outwieght urs, dont even bother with radiance coz they will faceroll over u guyz and finish the game or cripple u way to much.

There r some games tho when the enemy team has more passive heroes, and mb u have a babysitter, lets just say that mid aint some qop/storm but a magnataur or a brewmaster (its not that mag and brew wont gank its just that they dont snowball as hard as qop/storm with few kills), and the supports aint roamers/gankers more like lich/kotl/AA or some shit like that. In this case might be a good time to go radiance and ofc u need to have absolute free farm, a radiance that comes 20mins in teh game aint a rushed radiance. Even so on ur skill lvl, 9 out of 10 times its a bad idea to rush radiance coz probably ur team will crumble before that coz they will be fighting 4v5 and im not sure whether they understand whats goin on and will mostly blame u for not comming.

U see spectre is a hero who cant outfarm any other carry in the game coz she lacks a farming ability and her mobility is so shit to move around the map fast enough to farm, so she needs to take part in teamfights early on to get a couple of assists if she wants to keep up the pace, so better get those early game items and join 1-2 teamfight but make sure to never die, thats the most important thing, never die.

cheers

I don't think anyone who knows what they are doing goes for a naked radiance (Not to infer that I know what I am doing ). Even if you are rushing it you get some small items first, for example a naga might go PMS + tangos => brown boots => magic stick => bottle => arcane boots=> radiance, and then call that a radiance rush.

radiance is shit on tb and pl. on spec and naga its legit. naga for split pushing, spec for farming and dealing damage.

Making rad by 25 min is fine, by 20 min its great and by 15 min its difficult but fantastic.
On spec I go PMS->Urn->Treads->radiance->bigger items + diffusal
so as u can see, its not a radiance rush even tho its still making rad b4 a big item like vanguard or diff
Sometimes, a radiance after a diffusal or blade mail can work too

Against an enemy who wants to murder you early game for rushing rad, u hav to be careful to not die. As spec this isn't hard unless enemy is 5 man deathballing and pushing to end, as u can pick up safe spots to farm and haunt in team fights at the last minute to kill steal, urn will help u loads with that

people never remember that radiance provides aoe miss chance. Its like buying 17% talisman of evasion for your entire team.

I usually go like this for Spec;
Stout, qb, tango > RoH > Treads > Vanguard > Radiance

I just go around farming the whole map and press R for assist gold early game

You don't receive assist gold outside of aoe anymore.

Pfff, they reverted this just 3 hours ago, I am slow.

Well... that is the point of playing carry, you must bear with the pressure. Because you are Normal Skill so you need to improve your mechanics and learn farming routes, then fast Radiance will automatically come.

@Hello

sad day for my global nuke support zeus

yeah all the above makes sense, thanks for feedback. It sound lke naked radiance is NOT the same as rushed radiance, which me being a bit newer i always thought that was the case. I still will get flamed if i get radiance after diffusal or something as spec tho, but it's fine. I thionk radiance is so great on spectre and naga , occasionally on tb, and rarely but sometime on pl.

Like my usual dream situation for a radiance si when a team picks someone like fv, and you can jsut haunt while he stpidly trapped his whole team in chrono and they all get melted. plus he cant hit what he cant hit!

Anways, thanks for feedback, do you guys still think it's a good item for carries even around 25-30? I still think about when it;s useful for carries tho, non illusion ones too

Dont buy it on PL, illusions last too short for radiance to do anything. On naga carry is pretty much core cuz you can starve enemies in base, rat, and at a point you will win.Idk, Naga is I think one of the best late gamers, you rat without even being there.

For spectre its good, I think that people get it for farming purposes, and team fights in mid game. Ya, probably is the necessary as he ca t farm fast. Spectre is a real good carry with 3 items( radiance heart manta) but after people starts getting BKB, supports getting Ghost scepters, pipe I think he falls off ultra late game

yeah for a while I thought spectre was THE best late game heo. I mean if it's 1 on 1 I might pick spec late, but for whatever reason I'll be near OP spec and still lose late often

slark>>>spectre late

and radiance on pl an tb is asking to lose really fast

Spectre and medusa(imo, others have others opinion) late are overrated. Spec is very good with the big 3 items he usually gets. Medusa is a monster siege at 40-50 min, so early late game. I think there are carries for who you need much more resources to bring down. Well, medusa with 1/2 rapier has of course great DPS, but he gets kited easily( at least on paper) and i assume that at higher MMR(4-5k and above mmr i guess), people know to bait her ulti anyway

@Raining - wut?? Spectre reks slark plus his teammates.

how exactly is that happening

silver edge turns off her shit, and abysall will ensure her death

asuming its a real game you still have ultimate on slark and bkb

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1391426104

silver edge wasn't out then i think, but now it's even easier

oh and btw spectre is a man

I mean you don't rush it like that rushing, as in getting it as your first big item.

^yeah this too, when i played specter i would first get vanguard + phase/pt and then try for a radiance, and if i see that i can't get it in time(like 25 mins worst) i'm just going diffusal.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1630613814
this game was pretty shit so i skipped radiance and got those items

Welp that game was perfect. 3 bkbs + spike carapace ( I think nyx doesnt take damage if he activates it right?).

But yes, raining ia right, silver edge + abyssal its spec death.

thats what I said, his late game is overrated, after people get bkbs/ghost scep/ pipe for radiance spec isnt that scary anymore. Well at least in my opinion

and btw that spectre game of mine i got raped by slark, good thing he was braindead and bought shit like shadowblade+dagger and a really late bkb

Why did he sold shadow blade and n blink?

he thought it was ez katka

spectre's female

he is trans

new favourite hero KappaPride

The main reason spectre and medusa are considered the best late game is their ability to attack all 5 enemys at the same time they arnt built likeg slark who goes after just one target

That's a good point^ . maybe refresher spec needs to be the new meta, ultra late game 10 specs dealing dmg.

The problem is neither of them are great initiators so imo they are going to be huge factors in the end (a fair point) but maybe not hold as much value on if the game is a win or lose as the whole team or iniating core..

spectre is a team fight hero and slark is a man fight carry, completely different types. That's why most people say spectre and medusa rule end game though, cus for average folks end game is basically a bunch of 5v5 fights at rax.

Really though spectre is a carry who can do a lot with a few cores. Just a vanguard and diffusal mid game and her ult will drop most supports to half hp and she can tank a lot of dmg.

"That's a good point^ . maybe refresher spec needs to be the new meta, ultra late game 10 specs dealing dmg. "

I'm pretty sure they don't stack, but you do two ults in a row. That's 14 seconds of illusion time on supports, they are going to die and most carries will too. Most games don't get that far but I would definitely go something like boots, skadi/butterfly, manta/s&y, diffusal, radiance, refresher. Your illusions will hit fast and hard with that.

@atheist yes he can deal damage to multiple heroes, but when those heroes (supp) get their ghost scepter things become harder. Of course, this is for all carries, but idk, for me spectre, is really good with bis 3-4 big items. Ultra late game I think he falls off a bit.

Medusa again, at 50 min she is a monster siege, but then, if she cant get her ulti off she kind of gets kited. I think there are arries who needs more resources to deal with.

And yea, I think this heroes' late game is overrated, and I think spectre is actually better than medusa because of his superior mobility.

For example, Anti-Mage, a carry with no steroids to begin with( I dont find mana break a steroid. 64 mana break and only 60% of that is transitioned to damage, I thino around 36). Mobility is very important. Well, and the ability to farm 6 items in 35 minutes.

I still think that the best late gamers ( to be clear, I dont mean best Carry or smth, cuz anyway in teamfights usually, someone gets disabled by RP/ black hole, etc and the other one is attacking so it doesnt matter who is stronger in 1v1, but I mean the carries which requires more resources to deal with) are Naga Siren, Phantom Lancer( you basically cant escape, ghost?-diffusal, force staff?- phantom rush), Void sometimes but depends if he is good at landing chronos, Anti-Mage if he farms effectively simply because he can farm where others carries cant , and because blink is just awesome late game).

this is a whole different discussion, however I feel like sven is too good late game.

^ Winter Wyvern and he kills his team/cant do any damage cuz of cold embrace

just face it slark>>>all

techies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5k scrubs

@kappa is my waifu i agree with most of the facts u discussed but i can't agree with spectre fall off late game. imo hes one of the strongest carry in 50min+games. The only heros that can face him against late game are naga, medusa and am. And i have found out that pl really fall off to spectre when they have same slots i mean 5-5 or 6-6slot. Her tankiness, pure damage and the ability to fight easily in clash make her really shine in 5vs5 men fight. But i admit those facts i mentioned are strictly based on teamfight only.

she and i thought it was pretty standard to get refresher on her? is legit to use one and maybe die to pop bkbs and then buyback if needed and rehaunt late game.

is she the only hero with a core buyback strategy? centaur maybe?

@Rocket yeah refresher works well on her but it only suits for ultra late games likes 70min+ or 80min+. and yes again that she is a hard carry with most suitable buyback strategy.

refresher 7th slot

i think refresher is worthwhile getting earlier than that. 4th-5th big item often (after boots, rad and manta and/or hp)

EDIT: forgot about diffusal as well

not really worth it, refresher lost me some games, or at least 1 game

hard to lose at my level once you have rad+hp so i guess i just get it as a game-closing item once they are already struggling with my illusions whether that is 4th or 7th item (i wish)

It's rock paper sisscors, like someone said silver edge will just wreck spec. Or an aghs doom. Just like how medusa get's destroyed by pl with diffusal and AM once her bkb is down. Or like a 6 slotted tiny, melee heroes aren't killing that.

I have played a decent amount of spectr and slark. Slark rapes specter big time , spectr would need a very sizable lead to beat a slark . Slark rapes dusa too .

And I don't really think am owns spectr late game I'd actaully give a edge to spectre late altho I'd say neither one dominates the other . Besides sniper what other late game carry yall think spectr is cryptonote for? Like how slark owns spectr . Seems like he is just a team wrecker but can't think of many late game carries he specializes vs .