General DiscussionAdvice on Zeus?

aghs zeus is for retards

unless you're getting it sub 14 minutes just dont

Thank you, I honestly can't see its upside for the investment.

1. You don't have to use Q for every last hit. It also acts as a threatening harass tool that zones enemy heroes out and this allows you to save on mana by simply right clicking creeps since they're out of range.

2. I got confused by your "put a point in W", you don't put any points into it till level 3 and then its the skill you max first. Even if you spot an enemy ward, you don't add it level 1 EVER. The earliest you can get it is level 2 and only if the ward is conveniently in range. You don't want to miss out on gold and exp to run to the middle of a river to deward.

3. Octa isn't very good on Zeus early. There is no point getting as a 3rd item. It's situationally decent as a 4th.

4. You don't get any mobility items on Zeus which is horribe. The guy moves like a snail and has 0 escape tools.

5. Bloodstone is overrated on him. It's good if you have a nice start because it's very snowbally but you do not need it. It provides you NOTHING if you try to get it when you're behind. All you get is some hp/mp and mana regen. Zeus doesn't really run out of mana that easily unless you're literally casting nonstop on creeps and on the ground and whatever.

6. Your average GPM on the hero is horrible especially since you're playing with a bloodstone rush. Don't go for kills endlessly and forget how capable Zeus is at farming creeps.

7. Learn how to use veil and get used to it. It does more damage than aghs, costs much less, has an easier buildup and provides you decent survivability. I always start with a null talisman (pooled regen) instead of bottle rush because honestly, you should be able to get bottle gold on time with Q. The null transitions into veil afterwards.

My way of playing Zeus is a mobile glass cannon with huge instagib potential.

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/91383648/matches?date=&hero=zeus&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&faction=&duration=&enjoyment=any&timezone=Asia%2FShanghai

skill build :

1,2,3,2,2,4,2,3,3,3,4,1,1,1,4,+,+,+,+

skill 3rd damage enemy around you, yes around you with HP percentage. never miss it. skill 2 is fucking nuke with fucking low cooldown, with fucking true sight around it.

spam Q on lane to harass enemy. when enemy is not on lane you can right click.

mobility is good on zeus. he have no escape tools. dagger or forcestaff. i believe forcestaff better than dagger. (depend on your play style)

veil of discord is underrated items. very very very underrated. it offer many things not just for ur ult but all your damage. and your friends

do not forget the power of eul. another disable is nice. or just debuff for your self. when you silenced. + movement speed is fucking huge for zeus and 150% mana regen is always something good.

a lot of midlane heroes can kill zeus at 6

but as long as you've kept their hp at a safe range of 60~70% with W spam, they can't dive you or risk being instagibbed.

Bloodstone and octarine are very good but you need to change ur build from time to time though depending on what heroes they have and which heroes your team has (veil of discord rekts if someone else on ur team can get benefit of it and even if it's just for you it keeps being worth most of the times), i have no much time now but i will give u some tips later. For now u can check some of my zeus games if u want. GL

Sorry 13 hours into a 15 hour shift lol, I always try to start with a null (derp on me), also my W does not get a point in it til lvl 3-4 (another derp on me) .

Could you give me an item progression?

i.e Null>Bottle>etc.

I learn better from templates. I like the idea behind how you use Zeus and will use your advice in a few pubs to get it down to a science for myself.

Btw thank you for the help and feedback.

i always get

2 branch -> bottle -> mana boots.

depending on your lane matchup you might want to go 2 points into Q for the extra dmg and push potential over before maxing out W

getting null early is stupid. he have so much space and you just using 2.

Ocore makes your dmg increases so much I usually go for it after bloodstone if I can get away skipping force/blink/glimmer for mobility.

I just saw all of the new comments, thank you guys.

also if u stay max range for chain lightning last hits the other mid will not be in range for wand charges

I'd listen to King of Low pro, i played with him, he's pretty good with Zues. :P

I will read and reply to all, its the busy time at work right now, will be back on later tonight.

And thanks again for the help.

Sampson made a good point about getting level 2 Q.

For me, I go 1-4-1-1 into 4-4-1-1. Which means I don't max passive second like most people do. I personally find the increased damage from Q better because it also allows me to farm creeps much faster.

Similar to you, I go null>bottle>manaboots. From here I usually go on to get a blink because it'll allow you to escape from ganks and jump into fights. It just makes things so much more lenient on positioning. It's also great for disjointing projectiles. Afterwards I decide between veil and dagon. You just have to judge the circumstances by yourself and decide which to get first. Once you get these two, you can blink instagib non tanks at full hp with your full combo.

There is no need to max out dagon but I usually do so because I'm snowballing. Dagon 3 is fine. After these you decide on further survivability/utility items such as bkb, ghost, hex and octa. These all come down to the lineups and how the game is going.

Btw, the reason for Null early is simple. It's simple efficiency. Firstly, it builds into two of my preferred core items on Zeus; veil and dagon. Secondly, I can still get bottle pre 2 minute rune with Q and rightclicking so theres no point for me to rush a 30 second bottle. Thirdly, it helps with Zeus's horrible last hitting without spells. It also gives enough mana for an additional Q and some hp.

Veil of Discord is a very underrated item. I'd only not get it on Zeus if the rest of the team heavily relies on physical damage (which is very rare in the current meta) - otherwise it not only boosts your, but your whole team's damage by a considerable amount (yep, this is still a team game with more important things than one's own KDA).

KDA is all that matters when you play zeus

there is more benefit to getting an early Bottle than getting a null because - your animation is shit and you have a cost effecient nuke to potentially last hit all the creeps if you have mana.

I even think getting a soul ring before boots isn't too bad

@OP, I looked at the overview of your last couple of games and you always have Bloodstone + Arcanes (6/8 times). You can disassemble arcanes for a faster bloodstone timing and later upgrade to BoTs.

I will get soul ring before boots if there is not much opposition to runes

I got some time now so I can try to help you out. Every player has its own methods but im gonna explain u one that im using the most in terms of items;

- start with 1 or 2 branches, 1 clarity, 1 or 2 tango shared, so you will be able to get your bottle after the first creep wave and if you dont miss any of the initial 4 you will still have enough for a clarity aswell.
- After you have your bottle you need to prioritze if you want boots first or get a soul ring, it depends about rune control and ganks, I usually get boots just in case I get ganked I have more chances to survive, if there is an storm or lesh on the other team you can also start with the stick.
- If things are going good, let's say you get 1 kill on mid and another kill with ult somewhere else then you are in a very good spot, when I feel like I won the lane, I try to get boots of travel between 8-10 minutes and from there you just have to keep farming mid and stacked camps and always be ready to tp to wherever its needed, it will give you a huge control on the map and work your snowball from there.
-If things are not going good, you got ganked, you cant get any kill with ult cuz other lanes are losing, then better skip the Bots and rush veil of discord, so you have a good chance at getting the advatatge back just by staying behind your allies and using veil on as many heroes as posible so your aoe damage will be insane in that early stage.

-Bloodstone/octarine core build is insane but it wont give you any additional damage early game, just mana sustain, mana pool and hp pool which is not bad because it allows you to farm fast, but most of the times oyu just want to deal as much damage as posible.
-Aghanim sceptre; I dont usually build it unless we have a bloodseeker that benefits a lot from zeus' aghs, or spectre or another global strat, if there's no such situation I rather get the cheaper veil which also gives you good armor boost and amplifies the damage of all your spells and your allies spells and not only your own ultimate (you can get both aswell and just deal 600~ magic damage after reduction to all enemy heroes.
- Dagon, its a good pickup if you're doing the veil build, because it will also boost the dagon damage, not needed to upgrade to level 5 untill later, you are better getting a blink after the first level dagon so you can just initiate and nuke some crucial target for more than 1k damage with your full combo in just 1 second.
- Refresher, its just amazing for zeus whatever you build before it, you only need the mana pool to sustain it. So dont build it too early.

Then there are lots of situational items, euls can be good, ghost can be good and maybe upgraded to ethereal blade late game, schyte of vyse if needed lockdown, force staff if there is a clock or skywrath on the other team.

To be good at zeus you need good positioning and not die in teamfights, and if you die make sure you used all your spells or at the very least your ultimate. Also you need to know that the as the game advances zeus doesnt scale like a right click carry so you need to finish before 40 minutes if possible, unless your team has a better late game (phantom lancer or whatever) then you can just explode people with your dagon combo to keep creating space for your carry and not worry about finishing early. If your team has no pushing abilities then you are a bit screwed because you wont be able to take down towers, and the only way to win is to deathball nonstop, tell your team to get pushing items (desolator, necros, ac, vlads, any of those are good to make your team take towers faster) and finish as soon as possible.

Damn I feel like I writed to much and many things might not have sense, also english is not my first language and im not sure if I made too many mistakes, anyways I hope it helps you improve.

Mokujin

what part of

i get the bottle before 2 minute rune either way do you not get

there is literally no value lost if we're talking about mana because i'm still using up all 3 charges before i pocket that rune.

there is no point in a super bottle rush as long as you get it pre 2 min mark which you should be accomplishing on zeus even if you've spend 500g

Well, w/e works for you :)
It shouldn't make a big difference anyhow, at OP's level

I suck on zeus but I always get quelling blade, helps you deward since your attack range sucks and you can't get up the big cliffs. Also you can deward under smoke with the QB. And just spam search for wards, that is so frustrating to play against as a support, and you get 50g per ward you find so it's well worth it.

100% of my zeus games are offlane lol, don't really recommend it unless you know you're against a weak dual lane. Even then he pushes the lane major and magic stick fucks him hard

Also abusing item dropping with soul ring is so sweet on this hero, even better than on techies imo

a, s, d, space last two spells e, r, w = deny wtf is a Q? Lol.

Blink is amazing on Zeus. I always get it first after Arcane Boots.