General DiscussionTIMBERSAW

ask @triplesteal he's the best timber out there right now

there are certain supports that zone timbersaw even if u r like 2k behind the mmr of enemy's offlaner. there's just nothing that can be done against necro, silencer, sky and some other heroes. let ur carry keep creep equilibrium at the turning point of the creep path, and stay close to the river urself spamming ur shit and rightclicking him when creeps are not around. basically ull just force him to leave lane or just be lvl1 7 minutes into the game.

then there are certain supports that have no dramatic power against timbersaw, but u can still do well. the key point is to understand that if timbersaw is lvl 4-5, and u and ur carry are lvl 3, the lane is already lost. u need to prevent him from getting experience as early as possible, cz the hero is pretty weak in his teens. get 4 tangos and a salve and just try to harras him and zone him out; he wont be able to kill u early on, and if he tries, u just trade his whole mana for ur salve with is acceptable. timbersaw wiout mana is useless unless its a solo lane against am and he got 2 points in reactive armor.

if u have some specific supports that u'd like to focus on, tell me and i'll explain what to do.

this hero cant deal with stuns and especially silences

abuse his zero armor especially those dumb ones who dont take reactive armor at laning

also dont leech ur carry's experience. if you are lvl 2, timbersaw is lvl 5, and ur carry has 6th, its a success (if u r the only lane support of your team).

omg triple u typed that faster than me

how many fingers do u have

"here are certain supports that zone timbersaw even if u r like 2k behind the mmr of enemy's offlaner. there's just nothing that can be done against necro, silencer, sky and some other heroes."

Painful experiences, eh? I once played mid against timbersaw, I thought he'd be pretty easy to deal with and boy was I wrong, if you're melee 1v1 him he'll eventually fuck you so fucking hard it's not funny.

AM poops on this hero if AM's supports have reliable stuns

actually even in a 1v1 lane AM still win afaik because u also trade with ur mana

this hero is legit awful lol
the only time ive lost my lane to a timber was when it was ohaiyo
buy a quelling blade and eat some trees if you are melee
wow chains is completely useless
get boots as a range hero
hey another useless hero again

@sven guy
timbersaw is a good midlaner, but hes so out of meta cz no one picks melee mids these days.

out of all non-ranged mid heroes, he only struggles with ember on the laning stage, cz u cant really break the flaming guard neither deal a lot of pure damage through it, cz one of ur spells is magical (unless u waste a branch just to plant a tree to cut it), and the other one - pure.

@triple star
ohaiyo is pretty mediocre on this hero. i mean, timbersaw is actually shit, but for other reasons than u mentioned.

@alice
buy qb, stout, and 8 tangos (qb in the side shop), go 3-2-3 build, lose all ur mana, enjoy even farm with antimage. u cant kill him, he cant kill you.

Well I was playing earth spirit and our safe lane carry was Naga, this guy stole my double pull and then killed me with 6167262777 damage at level 5. No reactive armor. I can fuck with timber once I get levels but in the lane he is an amazing bully.

no idea but it was pl lion vs timber lich
this hero is really mediocre solo offlane against people with brains who can dodge chain/not stand at super obvious chain spots
u need a dual

^welp, to me this idea makes very little sense tbh

^ mostly this but....

I have seen Trippletard play timber pretty well but it's like a bunch of other heroes unless you've literally played only that hero there's not much good in him.

While better than Axe at the moment, he can contribute a decent amount to team fights and just be aggravating to catch and a pain in lane but beyond that not much really goes into the hero beyond that.

Still good players can make it work esp. vs the melee core picks that have become so popular.

u CAN play a dual lane with timbersaw if enemies drafted some dogshit retarded crap, but its an unusual scenario.

u dont need to kill any1 in lane and u cant do it, unless ur lane opponents are super autistic or eventually getting b8ed.

normally, u just get lvl6, sometimes - arcane boots if enemy safelane is weak, leave the lane and never come back, cz u fight or clear jungle camps for the rest of the game.

what do you mean by idea making very little sense? was u replying to me?
anyway i know he has other flaws and stuff, but OP was complaining about timber's laning phase, which i responded to

@havoc
i struggle playing against spectre recently, cz the new meta build is way better against timbersaw; and i can do smthng only in super late game.
jugg is 2nd worst carry to play against (1st is fucking FV) at any point of the game.
sven-timbersaw matchup is pretty even, unless sven does good early. in this case, u r fucking done, even tho sven is a str hero.
morphling - no comments.

on top, all the meta mids > timbersaw. i dunno, this patch seems like not the one in which i could actually play this hero consistently.

there's just nothing that can be done against necro

@triplenstar
i was refering to your comment about dual lanes with timbersaw

whats wrong with necro? this hero is awful to play against at any stage of the game for timbersaw, but the laning stage is probably the worst part.

Lich rapes every conceivable lane AFAIK but boring. Skywrath deals damage in many instances so not too sure about that. Gots to try necro.

well his skills arent actually that bad at 1 levels each? so you dont actually need exp that badly apart from getting chakram.like if u had disables you could actually land ur spells and bully the offlaner together
his concept is very greedy anyway so i dont see why dual lanes would be bad
he either starts with the chains with 0 armor or armor with 0 escape and average tankiness, super easy to get zoned from exp by any support imo
but then again i dont play timber at all
well you mentioned support then u mentioned necro which is like a trash support basically?
unless you meant necrolic :X

^sky is particularly good because of silence. timbersaw is weak against nukes, silences, stuns, and ms debuffs. sky has 4 spells that fall within this list.

Funny how Lich is always referred to as boring.

@triple star
the priority in the early stage of the game is to get lvl6 asap and start killing shit left and right, u dont get much money out of farming at this point of the game. experience gives u more utility than gold. its partly explained by the steucture of early fights that are usually short (=u r less item dependant and more skill dependant). i find this things a bit hard to explain cz i never conciously analyze it.

yes, a dual lane could secure some lasthits for you, but its a sword double edge sword, cz ur lvl6 is delayed and u dont get kill bounties that u should have got. smthng like midas on am, u know: at first sight, it helps ur farm, but actually it has a negative impact on it.

my main point was that if u put him solo he should just get ocmpletely zoned out and get less exp compared to if u ran a dual, unless u use gimicks like letting the range creep go first or waiting for them to mess up their pulls

whenever im not against a trilane or silencer/sky that are willing to sacrifice everything to zone me out, im feeling pretty comfortable and can leech enough experience to be no more than 1 lvl behind their carry. offlane is supposed to be rough, but somehow ppl deal with it even without playing enchantress/brood/dual lanes, like double camp blocking, hiding in trees, getting 8 tnagos and trading hits, pulling camps on ur own, etc.

reactive armor is the real strength of this hero in the laning stage that lets you deal with zoning supports (again, there are few exceptions here).

hero's actually complete trash in this patch anyways, unless u ban zeus/invoker/od/dp and place him mid.

Why are you scared of him? Just don't stand by trees and he can't do anything to you. I don't even have an issue with him as a melee, just watch your positioning. Would gladly take him over a wr or clock or nyx offlane.

You can't trade farm with AM though. He will definitely have more damage and attackspeed, if he is good, he will deny most of the creeps. The hero is good against weak duallanes, can get decent exp at least.

^ye u will have a bit less lasthits (thanks to qb), and a lot less denies, but its still better than u could expect in any other realistic scenario which involves am. also ill he gets his ring(s), u will benefit from trading hits
the key is to keep ur reactive armor at 10 by forcing creeps to attack you, and not let am hit you when ur armor is low.