all the void diffusal manta build items are cd independent to some degree
even if ur manta is cd and ur diffusal is 0 charge u hit like a truck, something like butterfly is going to amp ur damage significantly in addition to providing evasion and flutter, wheras necro will only work in chrono or during a diffuse charge, and only provides ur hero with minor hp
winrate of all >5000 gold luxury items is going to be high, especially something as exotic as a necro 3 lol
I might build it if my team is beastmaster + ogre magi or some shit lol, probably not even then. any gold that u put into necro units will do more on ur hero because void scales like a monster
Necro isn't that great if all you're doing with it is mana-draining in chrono, you're better off getting more attack speed for your diffusal's mana burn. I guess you can go for a tanky aura build and get necro if you also have a vlad's and ac.
Necro books are useless with chrono up, I can see why they could be useful, but voids hits hard already, pushes fast. I feel like majolner don't remember how it's spelled rn of ac is better. A farmer void can do great things with a good chrono, but that's just my playstyle
drums provide him more strength so he can be more tanky, agi so he can hit harder and int so he can spam q more and also they give him as to kill quicker and ms to chase let's all buy drums on void it's a great item
those numbers should really be taken with a bucket of salt
building necro books after vlads, manta, and diffusals pretty much defeats the purpose of building those core items in the first place.. instead of capitalizing on the strengths you receive from building them (single target sure kill during multiple-heroes chrono, strong kiting capabilities pre and/or post chrono, etc) through teamfights, you basically stop that momentum and the chance to snowball for the sake of buffing stats that is, in this point of the game, already more then sufficient (provided by manta) to close the game.. and if u cant burn your target's mana low enough to make him a non-factor in the following clash should he survive post-chrono, go for more non mana burn dps or just dont target that hero in the first place lol
going for [more] mana burn is NOT how you should develope your Void.. leave that path to AM, Nyx, Lion, etc
Generally just don't get Necro unless you either:
1) Playing a hero with some sort of aura or a way of boosting their attack speed, like beastmaster aura, abaddon's curse, lycan's abilities etc.
2) A hard support that has a lot of extra farm
Okay I'm not seeing anyone explain why exactly getting a necro 3 is bad. Your arguments all boil down to "yeah but there are other good items for void too lol".
The item has a 75% winrate when it is built. If this was inefficient then he would be losing more with it.
Even when getting necro 1 or necro 2 (which could happen if someone starts building towards it and dont have time/gold to finish it) the items have 64 and 68% winrates. If going for the items was really bad then building them would result in the hero having lost more games, not won them. Echo sabre, which is the equivalent cost of a necro 1 has only a 55% winrate compared to the necro 1s 64%.
All I'm seeing is "waaaah you're thinking outside the box just go with what everyone else does and never try anything different even if it might actually end up better waaaah". $20 bucks says everyone who dismissed this idea immediately has never built necro 3 on void and so has no actual authority to claim that it is bad given how they also haven't addressed how high a winrate the items have.
Kinda defeats the point of playing faceless void
The "mana burn while inside chrono" is just a bonus,it's build mainly for dps from the high agi gained from the build
You don't have auras to make necros do more damage
Might work in a snowball strat,but even then you'd probably win by getting drum aquila and shit
Before you say I'm a typical "waaaah you're thinking outside the box just go with what everyone else does and never try anything different even if it might actually end up better waaaah" I really like to theorycraft and build unusual items if i have to
I still rarely go for diffusal manta build on void for example
Necro isn't good on Void because there is no synergy with any of his abilities or usual item builds. Void doesn't make your necro summons any stronger, except maybe if he gets a Vlads. There's too many better items to get with Void, items that improve his attack speed and therefore his bash proc, items that increase his survivability to let him time walk more. Winrates with necro don't matter on Void when there's only like 1000 games where somebody builds it, dagon 5 has nearly a 70% winrate and e-blade has a 82% winrate on Void, are you going to argue why those are good items too?
it boils down to this
necro 3 creates small dps units that do not bash or have blink
void is a large dps unit that bashes and has blink
I could create small dps units for a (debatable) similar dps boost as a damage item on void, but ONLY WHILE NECRO UNITS ARE HITTING THINGS. VOID WILL BE HITTING THINGS MORE OFTEN THAN THE CD-DEPENDANT NECRO UNITS
imagine the game splits off, and in one game void goes necro, and in the other one the void goes butterfly. In all but niche circumstances, the butterfly void will perform better (numerically, he will put out higher damage in addition to being far tankier and having flutter). and butterfly is just an example, even something like a skadi bkb or crit will probably have greater benefits than a necro 3
necro void has been something that some people thought of since before void-rework and it has never been as viable as buffing the hero's damage
mek recipe has 100% winrate on void, guess i should just buy nothing with starting gold save for mek recipe, it's 100% winrate clearly means it causes the enemy ancient to explode once purchased. /s
necro has a high winrate because it's one of those items that you build because you're doing dumb shit - either because you're super far ahead i.e. about to end the game or you're doing dumb shit because you're much better than your opponents. bad players are just going to follow the valve item build or something so they're not going to build necro and therefore not lower necro's item winrate.
judging by his other threads i think hes actually serious
Yes in this thread I am actually serious (unlike aether lens/octarine snier/bs which are more obvious troll builds). I'm going to test the idea out and then show you all. Kinda like Tarhiel in Morrowind, we'll see who laughs when I climb the mmr ladder with necro 3 void.
because it's a bad item on void unless you're in a stalemate game where you have a huge advantage but can no longer win teamfights.
then maybe u get necro just to chip their base to death.
ill laugh when you lose a couple hundred mmr bcs ur too dense and stubborn to accept clear facts and logic
hi guys muranjii here and today we're gonna think outside of the box
1)get a shit item
2)explain it's viability textdoto style
3)you're wonderful
LOL no the manta diffusal build isn't for draining someone's mana. It's value lies is that it provides the most utility out of any other item combo.
Manta gets rid of silences. Diffusal purges. Diffusal slows. These 2 items combined synergizes for great damage as well. 8k gold can't be spent any better.
As an offlaner, succesfully getting a good Chrono off is what you're built to do, so you can't let silences get in your way. Diffusal's slow also allows you and your team to keep getting kills when chrono is down.
Still, if you feel lucky with your bashes, and/or you feel like you don't need to deal with silences other items like Echo Sabre, Mjolnir, or MoM do provide more damage.
you could climb mmr by spamming bloodthorn void. voids the most brainless and retarded hero in ranked right now that ic an think of right now outside of last 2 pick offlane timber
its good against dusa though, other than that when the game goes late void doesnt have that dps.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2120265515
i already tried this build couple of times, but usually farming necro books around 30 mins isnt really ideal in close games.
^ bfly manta diffu mkb vlads treads void reduces a bfly manta skadi linkens crit phase medusa to 1/2 hp and 0 mana in chrono
Lol.
1. All rarely built items, expensive items have high win-rates. U cant take item win rates seriously
2. Diffusal manta is not for draining mana at all. Its for cheap dmg, atck speed, armor, stats, and most of all diffusal purge and manta dispell/dodge
3. Void can still be played as a beast of a late game carry. U really gna give him necro book man? Ur dishonouring him with that item
The point behind Manta Diffusal/butterfly build is maximising Agility gain, and creating strong manta illusions afterwards (inflict good damage). You choose Necrobook or you choose Bloodthorn?
Okay I'm not seeing anyone explain why exactly getting a necro 3 is bad.
Everyone is literally making good points as to why it is bad
The item has a 75% winrate when it is built. If this was inefficient then he would be losing more with it.
The item is mostly built when the team is already winning. Kinda like the same reason KOTL has like a 90% + winrate with a Rapier.
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So the whole point of the Vlads Manta Diffusal Void build is for Void to chrono someone and drain their mana with manta illusions and the main hero hitting them for 4-5 seconds.
Necrobook 3 provides 2 creeps which both have mana drain and which can move and attack inside his chronosphere. They also provides bonus auras to help increase movement and attack speed to provide even more team fight benefit. With a BAT of 0.75 the necro 3 warrior should be able to get off about 5-6 attacks in the duration of the chronosphere which amounts to 375-450 mana drained and an extra 225-270 damage from the mana drain.
It also provides plus 16 strength and 24 intelligence which makes him a little more tankier and provides a lot of extra mana for time walking.
Despite all these benefits the item has been built only something like 7000 games over the past month even though Vlads/Manta/Diffusal has become one of the most common builds nowadays. More people have ended the game with a cheese in their inventory than a necro 3. And its winrate across those 7000 games? Almost 75%.
Even in the cases where they were only able to get necro 1 or necro 2 (about 1,300 and 1,100 games each) those items had 64 and 68% winrates). A little low to statistically prove anything, but if they were really useless items then buying them would cause them to be a liability and end up resulting in more games lost on the hero given the gold invested. Eg a basher which costs about the same amount as necro 1 has only 50% winrate because the item gives nothing to Void since he can't bash from the basher only from his own bash).
Anyway I would recommend you give going necrobook 3 after your treads, vlads, manta, diffusal and see how it goes. I know I will be trying it the next time I play Void.