General Discussionillusions - Manta - treadswitch

Int or agi

U should switch to Int tread when using mana, use agi tread when restoring hp and mana

You could switch from to int to agi right after using manta. This way you save a little mana and have your illusions on agi. But I'm not sure if it's worth the inconvenience, especially when you need your fingers on other keys.

Team fight = STR
Skill/Item use that cost mana = INT
Bottle sipping/tango/salve/clarity/mango/urn/mek = AGI

I think on Strength heroes though you always go STR over AGI. You can switch to int early on when you're still concerned about mana but later on having your treads on your primary attribute is more valuable than the mana saved.

always keeping treads on int or agi for casting spells/rightclicking
then something happens and you die with agi treads on
tfw

If switching to STR makes up more than 5% of your total hp, stick to STR treads. If switching to INT makes up more than 10% of your total mana pool, then switch to them when using any item or skill that uses that amount at the very least.

i understand treadswitching, i'm talking about the micro efficiency, of having stronger illusions, vs saving mana, vs more hp on your illusions

Each point of STR increases hp by 20 and Treads are capable of getting 9 total, so:

20 x 9 = 180 total hp from Treads.

Manta illusions take 400% damage.

180/4 = 45 total hp from staying on STR attribute when using Manta.

Using Manta takes 125 mana.

I don't understand fully how it works, but I know you'll save around 25 mana by using it while your Treads are on INT and then switch to another attribute.

By the time u get manta style I'm pretty sure ur not so worried about ur mana using something as mana-cheap as a manta. For heroes like TB, use manta/make illusion with AGI treads. For CK, obviously STR.

Terrorblade has 710 mana at level 16 with nothing but Treads(AGI) and Manta with his average use of mana being 60 per skill after he goes big mode. This is a rather large mana pool for a hard carry AGI hero like him with low mana use skills. Assuming your in big mode when you use Manta, this adds 28% of the 9 AGI as damage and 60% for his main ones. This is 2.52 damage per illusion for Manta illusions and 5.4 damage for his main ones. Not a big deal Tread switching on this guy, right?

Chaos Knight, however, can be a very big deal. Fully 6 slotted at level 16 with his usual core items, he has at most, 602 total mana sitting on STR treads. With his ult using 275 mana and his stun using 140 mana, this adds up to 415 mana used with just these 2 skills alone; for the record, that is nearly 70% of his total mana pool. Add in Manta and a single use of Rift and you're sitting at a grand total of 590 mana used if you didn't Tread switch; leaving you with 12 mana at the end of the day.

STR melee damage for Manta - 9 x .33 = Rounding up to 3 damage per illusion
STR melee hp for Manta - 12 x 9 x .33 = Rounding up to 36 hp per illusion

When you count in the Armlet, HoT, Heaven's Halberd, Ultimate Orb from Manta, BKB STR gain, does adding the above stats really seem that obvious as opposed to saving 25 mana from each skill and item use to Reality Rift three more times per team fight instead of being left with a static 12 mana by staying on STR attribute?

Edit: I should also mention he has an impressive 1.8 mana regen per second by this point.

Here is a trick that is handy for any illusion/manta hero. If you have fast fingers and you immediately tread-switch after casting manta you will pop out with agi illusions after casting on int. This way you can get the best of both worlds. If you don't believe me go into a lobby and try it out. You do have to be very quick on the timing for this to work.

@ctrl
Thought of that too
But still by the time you get manta you won't have much problem with mana unless you're CK