I don't usually deny creeps as that leads to the enemy getting angry and starting to deny my creeps; as a core or mid. However, if I'm playing a support and I'm not pulling, then I usually try to deny when I'm not harassing.
if the offlaner is being zoned there isnt a need to get the last hit deny , i just start hitting at <50% during the early laning phase and pay no further attention
Rofl didn't phantom riki used to say that? Someone once said using reverse psychology you shouldn't deny creeps cus the enemy mid is too dumb to do it but if you remind them it's available they'll start. Which makes no sense, you should deny and just be better at it than enemy hero.
Offlaner being zoned, good one! I get your point though, you kill creeps to keep them by your tower but don't necessarily get the deny. There is a trick to where if you are the offlaner and having trouble getting denies sometimes you just hit it early and it'll screw up the carry's cs cus then your creeps kill it. It almost frustrates carries more lol.
That takes effort. More than I am willing to freely give. If he starts to deny, I'll deny right back; but I'll do so in anger.
Actually I think I may have jumped out a little too far with my assumption. I checked a couple matches from TI and most games see carries hit 10-20 denies and mids hit 10-20 denies and that's about it. Supports rarely have more than 2-4 which makes sense if they are roaming/zoning out etc. So my performance is pretty normal and supposed to be the highest denies if playing safe lane unopposed.
the 10-20 denies is a mistake by mid btw (when facing potm).
Carry can also end up having 5 denies and being perfectly in the game, when the offlaner doesn't showup. and when the offlaner actually showup, he has so much streng that it's actually close to impossible to get more deny that those 10-20 (except versus dark seer).
Anyway, the main issue with denies is the fact that they are close to irrelevant , (unless ranged creep, which is almost impossible to deny due to his low life). -and making your opponent miss his last hit is easier than denying the creep-
The second issue with denies is the fact that as a mid, it's better to be ahead of 4 opponents (go fast in the wood for additional gold/xp) than downing opponent mid (denying). -that has to do with the "comeback" formula which would favor "low" gold/xp heroes when killing. So after a few kill you are exactly at the same point no matter how much deny you suffered in the lane (unless it's a fucking high number of deny ofc -which should happen when you play potm-). The only difference is how hard those first few kill will be.
So you have the choice to spend a "bad" early game along your opponent in mid, or to have a fun farm fest early game along your mid opponent. There's more or less a tacit agreement between both opponent middle to not full focus on deny; because that's pointless and unfun for both.
The only way to overcome that "tacit agreement" would be to buff dening. Cause for now, you'll just have less fun (yourself) denying, and it's not an effectiv strat (unless opponent middle is super weak, like potm)
Every time I am against an Invoker mid it seems their life mission to deny every single creep. Since I usually play Zeus mid it's impossible to deny unless the enemy hero isn't in the lane so I just Cs with arc lightning.
when i have a roam potm on my team i focus on denying enemy mid so that hes not looking for the arrow
if ur sth like morph yeah you can rack up a shitton of denies if the enemy offlane isnt being zoned properly. ditto with am/tiny/sven/void to a lesser extent
Most carries are just bad.
But it's true you don't always need to deny but you should still get 20-40 in a good lane.
发表评论请登录
It's not like I have super high deny numbers, and I usually stop denying creeps once laning is over, but I typically get 15-20 denies on a carry in a game. However I noticed all the other players usually have less than double digits and I think this is weird. Maybe my supports in lane can't get them because I usually handle it, but offlanes and mids I feel don't even try to deny creeps. As anecdotal evidence of this I looked at my past 10 games, including wins and losses, to see my deny totals vs all other 9 players combined.
I have only not played safe lane carry twice, once was offlane viper and once offlane slardar. In those 10 games I totalled 143 denies, while the other 9 players totaled 393. For averages that means I got 14.3 a game while the average other player got a measly 4.36. On my single hero I am getting 26.67% of the total denies in a game. Also I had the highest amount of denies in 6 of the games.
What does this mean? Do I pad my numbers mid game killing off low waves? Idk, I don't think so, maybe I get a couple extra. But really it feels to me like the vast majority of mids and opposing safe laners don't even bother to try and deny and I am wondering why. It's really not a hard thing to do and pretty crucial for winning your lane.
I am only 3700 so maybe higher brackets see better lane mechanics. What is your experience and how much effort do you put into getting denies?
Also is it worth denying creeps mid game as waves push or not? Like if you just cleared a wave mid, oppsoing t1 is down but you are backing off and no hero is pushing mid, and two of your creeps are low enough to deny, do you let them push or deny them? On the one hand the wave pushing to make space and get a couple hits on the tower is good. On the other hand any carry in the vicinity can walk over or tp in and get a full wave of cs. I usually try to deny the creeps but just wondering what's the better approach.