absolute worst case scenario: 1v1 a necrophos as sniper, he walks around the shrapnel and completely zones me away from creeps because im in the long lane and not mid, mirana fighting me for creeps etc. no way for me to go into lane without getting assblasted
still 50 cs/ 10 min because i just retreat to the jungle and shrapnel camps slowly
It's funny how you post a player playing mid when we were talking about safelane. It's absolutely fucking different. Averaging 50+ for a midlaner is actually good.
here is a secret: my tinker is absolutely goddamn awful, mid almost always gets less cs in my experience, and we lost all of our lanes horribly due to jungle veno (who got no gold somehow)
not almost always. Absoultely always. In mid you always have a hero that contests you in a 1x1 matchup and sometimes you have ruckus going on with supports walking in and out of the lane.
The only mid heroes to potentially keep up with carry cs at 10 are the ones who take stacks pre-10 and push their lane very fast to be able to afford to stack and then take the stack. But then again lots of things are going to happen at early levels that makes both players miss cs.
it depends on the situation dude. generally on an ns game it is easy to reach 70-100 lh in 10min
as you go in higher skill, more pressure will be applied to you so you may get lower than that.
but dude dont just focus on ur farming, if u find a kill potential then go for it.
there is no farming pattern in a real skilled game dude, only farming on the areas on the map where your enemies arent
if you somehow get complete free farm, you should have at least 80-90. Luna/Sven 100
however the odds of them letting that happen are pretty low. if you get 50 vs a dual offlane or w/e thats fine.
i cant remember the last time i played safe lane without them sending some aids offlane combo at me.
the only place where you can expect the same gpm every game is jungle assuming they dont have a roamer come kill you.
how much u get contested is relative. So obviously someone who is much better won't find a cancerous dual offlsne in a normal skill game much of a contest. That said, looking at 7ks when they are contested gives u an idea of how much it is still possible to get around 50. In normal skill 50 is possible, but it's hard not because ppl contest you but rather the skill just isn't there either because of many missed last hits or improper lane management.
Tbh in 1k of u hit this farm u cud probably end game at 20 min. If u hit 50 lh by 10 min at my level u almost instantly win it's insane. If these r jd's numbers it finally makes so much sense to me why higher mmr player can stomp so easily.
Just aim for this amount : 10min get 60-70lh
20min get ~150 lh if you are very active in the map 200 if you are only participating 1-2 gank. Min 250 lh for 30 min . But for your ns skill and 1300mmr you dont participate in gank coz you can easily get 6 slot when enemy carry got 3-2 big item. Its like alch you know
It depends
A 80 LH ursa in 20 minute who took 2 roshan and destroyed 6 towers while shitting on the enemy team during that time is better than a 140 LH ursa who afked for 20 minutes
And a 100 LH ursa in 20 minutes is better than a 160 LH AM in 20 minutes
by the way,i've read your iseedeadpeople guide before (like 2-3 months ago)
it's pretty nice,and i think i'm going to read these stuffs from fb too
thank you for making those!
the best farming pattern guide is that if you are bellow 5k - you have to mute teammates if you're the carry because eventually they will tell you to stop split pushing and farming the jungle even though it is what you should do at a time
you must not give in to calls of lesser men - if somebody has a dumb idea, do not listen to it, do not tp to a dangerous zone when you're underfarmed or close to a crucial fighting item, just rotate jungle and lane efficiently and hope your whole team doesn't die in a disadvantageous fight
if you can, though, join fights by all means, but you should know whether or not you can contribute and gauge on that, a lot of time when teammates are screaming their lungs out and X pinging you, you should just continue to farm the jungle and push the lane
in my second to last dusa game jugg was pinging me because he wanted to finish the game and started split pushing, I was just waiting for rosh and mkb because they had a butterfly on their team, I even sold boots to get the aegis because I know I can output a fuckload of damage if I just stand in the middle of the fight, but not without the aegis, and not without the mkb
so I had to pair up with sniper on my team and constantly X ping him not to go alone to "split push" (he could die easily) before we get our items going and get the rosh
the real issue was that it was a late game scenario in a hour long game where if we get picked off one by one we simply lose the game if we don't all have buybacks, and buybacks are the most important resource, but he did not understand any of that, luckly I got my mkb and aegis and we won the fight really decisively instead of having a mkbless medusa shoot at people with butterflies and against a PL who has diffusal 2 and abyssal
if your teammates call you to five man before you can do it without dying, absolutely never listen to them, if you are the hero who hits buildings, it is not worth to die in a fight unless you are playing a multicore lineup and your teammates can win a buyback fight if you die
therefore it is better to rotate the jungle and push lanes out in as efficient manner as possible while playing as safe as possible (if you are the carry and your support is not buying wards, buy them yourself, a 65 item that can counter a huge carry death is basically nothing) and you should also make sure you don't have multiple cores farming the same space because that's a waste of time, or if you have an axe farming three camps in the jungle to get his blink you are not helping your team by farming those camps even if you are pos1 carry and he is jungle axe, instead of that you should pressure your lane if nobody is in it, and in some cases it is actually okay to go to the enemy jungle if it is warded or you have a way to escape if they come to gank you (I typically split push and farm the enemy jungle as medusa if I am confident I can tank the gank without dying, for example).
if u have summons like tb, lycan you farm jungle camps and send ur summons out to get every last hit and push the adjacent lane, maybe also scout esp if ur np
avoid the enemy team, if it looks like theres going to be a fight elsewhere shove the lane to the tower, make sure heros like storm/ dagon nyx have already committed to the fight before you start hitting the tower
if ur showing on lane and the entire enemy team or even 4 heroes is off the map for more than 3 seconds you are getting ganked, run into fog and tp to another lane while your summons continue pushing the previous lane, the repeat the process of jungling while ur summons push lanes. just be aware of the locations of heroes like riki clinkz nyx, especially if they have followup heroes like storm spirit. because they will scout you in the jungle and at 4k+ the nemy will wait to have many people before going instead of giving away that ur getting ganked with just 1 hero
if ur near ancients at 40-50 a hero like tb, lycan, AW can easily stack it and eat the stack after getting some items
being eficient is about maximizing how many creeps you can get without putting urself in undue amount of danger, while also forcing the enemy to react to you or lose towers. if they react to you ur buying a fuckton of space for ur team to recover from their brain damage, if they dont kill you, you get free towers and creeps and just get 800 gpm and carry the game 10 minutes later
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "FARMING PATTERN" - You farm where it is safe. This will NEVER BE THE SAME. You look at the map and react accordingly.
The only "patterns" that exist is how you get from camp to camp. You'll notice if you watch players/pros they will cut certain trees, or blink certain ways.
Here is my 10k mmr tip for the day.
You can blink across the river here, you just need to cut 1 tree. Most 7k+ you'll see run up the ward cliff which I think is bad because it's about 1.5s slower but more importantly wards are more likely to see you.
Guys what if our lanes our pushed out, it's too dangerous to farm them and someone else is farming our jungle (and it's too dangerous to farm the enemy jungle)?
And what do I do when the enemy is pushing out all lanes, it's too dangerous to farm my jungle and my team doesn't/can't gank?
What if I don't have illusions? Even if I do, won't the enemy just kill them? I understand this could work for question #1, but what about question #2 (question #1 is in the 1st paragraph of my last comment, and #2 is in the 2nd paragraph)?
or whatever to get creeps
Such as?
find something else to do like smoke gank with 1-2 teammates
What if my teammates don't cooperate? I say stuff like "kill axe" but they do something else. I can naturally see which enemy is splitpushing and I try to stop them, but my teammates (sometimes) don't pay attention. Usually a tower has to fall to catch my team's attention (this only happens sometimes. In some matches my teammates have good map awareness. I am merely asking what to do when my teammates do not have good game sense and map awareness and don't 'neutralize threats' if you know what I mean).
absolute worst case scenario: 1v1 a necrophos as sniper, he walks around the shrapnel and completely zones me away from creeps because im in the long lane and not mid, mirana fighting me for creeps etc. no way for me to go into lane without getting assblasted
still 50 cs/ 10 min because i just retreat to the jungle and shrapnel camps slowly
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2814042026
It's funny how you post a player playing mid when we were talking about safelane. It's absolutely fucking different. Averaging 50+ for a midlaner is actually good.
here is a secret: my tinker is absolutely goddamn awful, mid almost always gets less cs in my experience, and we lost all of our lanes horribly due to jungle veno (who got no gold somehow)
not almost always. Absoultely always. In mid you always have a hero that contests you in a 1x1 matchup and sometimes you have ruckus going on with supports walking in and out of the lane.
The only mid heroes to potentially keep up with carry cs at 10 are the ones who take stacks pre-10 and push their lane very fast to be able to afford to stack and then take the stack. But then again lots of things are going to happen at early levels that makes both players miss cs.
it depends on the situation dude. generally on an ns game it is easy to reach 70-100 lh in 10min
as you go in higher skill, more pressure will be applied to you so you may get lower than that.
but dude dont just focus on ur farming, if u find a kill potential then go for it.
there is no farming pattern in a real skilled game dude, only farming on the areas on the map where your enemies arent
^ i like that person, clear to the point and no bm. <3
if you somehow get complete free farm, you should have at least 80-90. Luna/Sven 100
however the odds of them letting that happen are pretty low. if you get 50 vs a dual offlane or w/e thats fine.
i cant remember the last time i played safe lane without them sending some aids offlane combo at me.
the only place where you can expect the same gpm every game is jungle assuming they dont have a roamer come kill you.
how much u get contested is relative. So obviously someone who is much better won't find a cancerous dual offlsne in a normal skill game much of a contest. That said, looking at 7ks when they are contested gives u an idea of how much it is still possible to get around 50. In normal skill 50 is possible, but it's hard not because ppl contest you but rather the skill just isn't there either because of many missed last hits or improper lane management.
actually, 50 is pretty good considering the following screenshots XD ROFL
ima cry after i went from 80% to 50% to 90%.
Comparing last hits with winrate???
keep in mind, i have THOUSANDS of games where i am terrible at dota, and these weight quite heavily
heres some more accurate figures
5K acc:
4k acc:
i think i have been jebaited?
What the fuck. Are u some terrorblade God or what. Teach me pls
Oh wait. For some reason I thought it was cs during the first 10 mins. Nvm. I can do better than jd ez
holy fucking shit.... literal kreygasm
Tbh in 1k of u hit this farm u cud probably end game at 20 min. If u hit 50 lh by 10 min at my level u almost instantly win it's insane. If these r jd's numbers it finally makes so much sense to me why higher mmr player can stomp so easily.
Just aim for this amount : 10min get 60-70lh
20min get ~150 lh if you are very active in the map 200 if you are only participating 1-2 gank. Min 250 lh for 30 min . But for your ns skill and 1300mmr you dont participate in gank coz you can easily get 6 slot when enemy carry got 3-2 big item. Its like alch you know
anti-mage
"core safelane"
keep in mind these are AVERAGES so bad games and hard lanes are included here too.
and 150cs/20m is a terrible goal. this is just my last game, not cherrypicking.
It depends
A 80 LH ursa in 20 minute who took 2 roshan and destroyed 6 towers while shitting on the enemy team during that time is better than a 140 LH ursa who afked for 20 minutes
And a 100 LH ursa in 20 minutes is better than a 160 LH AM in 20 minutes
This is including mid AM
Hmm... Makes my neurons tingle
obviously anyone who knows how to play dota properly will hover around 50 up to 80 in his own bracket by 10 minutes
but it's not a ''farming pattern'' if you only farm 1 lane.
there's no pattern to it, it's static.
farming patterns are dynamic movements for farm across the map which increase your gpm the more efficent you are at it
after 10 min, depending on how good your hero is, you should be geting about 100ish per 10 min or more
by the way,i've read your iseedeadpeople guide before (like 2-3 months ago)
it's pretty nice,and i think i'm going to read these stuffs from fb too
thank you for making those!
the best farming pattern guide is that if you are bellow 5k - you have to mute teammates if you're the carry because eventually they will tell you to stop split pushing and farming the jungle even though it is what you should do at a time
you must not give in to calls of lesser men - if somebody has a dumb idea, do not listen to it, do not tp to a dangerous zone when you're underfarmed or close to a crucial fighting item, just rotate jungle and lane efficiently and hope your whole team doesn't die in a disadvantageous fight
if you can, though, join fights by all means, but you should know whether or not you can contribute and gauge on that, a lot of time when teammates are screaming their lungs out and X pinging you, you should just continue to farm the jungle and push the lane
had a 4k tell me at 20 minutes "farming time is over - we 5 man for the rest of the game", when their mid was a dagon SWM who could oneshot me
of course i was TB and i split their team up across the map trying to stop me for the next 15 minutes, then wrecked their base with 6 slots
in my second to last dusa game jugg was pinging me because he wanted to finish the game and started split pushing, I was just waiting for rosh and mkb because they had a butterfly on their team, I even sold boots to get the aegis because I know I can output a fuckload of damage if I just stand in the middle of the fight, but not without the aegis, and not without the mkb
so I had to pair up with sniper on my team and constantly X ping him not to go alone to "split push" (he could die easily) before we get our items going and get the rosh
the real issue was that it was a late game scenario in a hour long game where if we get picked off one by one we simply lose the game if we don't all have buybacks, and buybacks are the most important resource, but he did not understand any of that, luckly I got my mkb and aegis and we won the fight really decisively instead of having a mkbless medusa shoot at people with butterflies and against a PL who has diffusal 2 and abyssal
if your teammates call you to five man before you can do it without dying, absolutely never listen to them, if you are the hero who hits buildings, it is not worth to die in a fight unless you are playing a multicore lineup and your teammates can win a buyback fight if you die
therefore it is better to rotate the jungle and push lanes out in as efficient manner as possible while playing as safe as possible (if you are the carry and your support is not buying wards, buy them yourself, a 65 item that can counter a huge carry death is basically nothing) and you should also make sure you don't have multiple cores farming the same space because that's a waste of time, or if you have an axe farming three camps in the jungle to get his blink you are not helping your team by farming those camps even if you are pos1 carry and he is jungle axe, instead of that you should pressure your lane if nobody is in it, and in some cases it is actually okay to go to the enemy jungle if it is warded or you have a way to escape if they come to gank you (I typically split push and farm the enemy jungle as medusa if I am confident I can tank the gank without dying, for example).
All this bragging from u guys and nothing about efficient farm patterns :p
literally farming "pattern"
its super simple
ancients = lane creeps > jungle creeps
if u have summons like tb, lycan you farm jungle camps and send ur summons out to get every last hit and push the adjacent lane, maybe also scout esp if ur np
avoid the enemy team, if it looks like theres going to be a fight elsewhere shove the lane to the tower, make sure heros like storm/ dagon nyx have already committed to the fight before you start hitting the tower
if ur showing on lane and the entire enemy team or even 4 heroes is off the map for more than 3 seconds you are getting ganked, run into fog and tp to another lane while your summons continue pushing the previous lane, the repeat the process of jungling while ur summons push lanes. just be aware of the locations of heroes like riki clinkz nyx, especially if they have followup heroes like storm spirit. because they will scout you in the jungle and at 4k+ the nemy will wait to have many people before going instead of giving away that ur getting ganked with just 1 hero
if ur near ancients at 40-50 a hero like tb, lycan, AW can easily stack it and eat the stack after getting some items
being eficient is about maximizing how many creeps you can get without putting urself in undue amount of danger, while also forcing the enemy to react to you or lose towers. if they react to you ur buying a fuckton of space for ur team to recover from their brain damage, if they dont kill you, you get free towers and creeps and just get 800 gpm and carry the game 10 minutes later
?? it's been said before....
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "FARMING PATTERN" - You farm where it is safe. This will NEVER BE THE SAME. You look at the map and react accordingly.
The only "patterns" that exist is how you get from camp to camp. You'll notice if you watch players/pros they will cut certain trees, or blink certain ways.
Here is my 10k mmr tip for the day.
You can blink across the river here, you just need to cut 1 tree. Most 7k+ you'll see run up the ward cliff which I think is bad because it's about 1.5s slower but more importantly wards are more likely to see you.
i have lost a game due to blinking into a melee carry farming that camp, just be aware of where people are before committing blink cd xd
you can also blink into roshan from here
you are unlikely to be seen with wards.
@JDF8
i almost died to neutrals because I didn't have battlefury and was expecting to go farm 1 camp but it was quad-stacked...
luckily i saw the creeps at the last split fucking second and moved my cursor in time i blinked into the river.
my heart stopped :D
Wtf quad stack exists omg
the real issue is people stacking against underlord/darkseer/bat because they dont fuckign dnerstand theyre just going to take it lamo
70 cs safe lane is average and casually obtainable Lul, 80+is pro level
CS LUL the thread
Sorry for the off topic question, but why are there 2 jdf8's? Is the one without D+ and a blue star an impersonator?
it smells like penises there
have u been measuring again?
theyre both me im its 5k round 2
this is logged in my phone the other one is my computer
my dong is about 4400/4850 units long. how about yours?
Makes sense.
Guys what if our lanes our pushed out, it's too dangerous to farm them and someone else is farming our jungle (and it's too dangerous to farm the enemy jungle)?
And what do I do when the enemy is pushing out all lanes, it's too dangerous to farm my jungle and my team doesn't/can't gank?
farm roshan then.
hide in trees and send out illusions or whatever to get creeps
get ancient creeps after dewarding it
find something else to do like smoke gank with 1-2 teammates
What if I don't have illusions? Even if I do, won't the enemy just kill them? I understand this could work for question #1, but what about question #2 (question #1 is in the 1st paragraph of my last comment, and #2 is in the 2nd paragraph)?
Such as?
What if my teammates don't cooperate? I say stuff like "kill axe" but they do something else. I can naturally see which enemy is splitpushing and I try to stop them, but my teammates (sometimes) don't pay attention. Usually a tower has to fall to catch my team's attention (this only happens sometimes. In some matches my teammates have good map awareness. I am merely asking what to do when my teammates do not have good game sense and map awareness and don't 'neutralize threats' if you know what I mean).
sometimes ur fucked, 99% of the time ur not
the situation ur listing is extremely oppressive for a lot of heroes
the biggest of epeens