General DiscussionJugg mjolnir

It's less of a thing now than before imo cus diffusal + manta is so popular. It's decent cus it can proc during your ult and gives you enough attack speed to attack more during your ult.

proc, attack speed. much better than a bf cause u can fight with a maelstrom

It lets you farm faster and the 80 attack speed is HUGE on his ultimate.

real question is why would u ever build bf on jugg you are greedy and want to be useless for the early game

Old farming meta, any melle carry would buy bf to farm as fast as possible.

Ah mjol on jugg. Finally a sensible item for him

cuts through high armor heroes like timber morph DK as well

and just has insanely low bat so it procs more for him

because most dota heroes has 1.7 BAT

but juggernaut has 1.4 BAT which means attack speed items effects him alot more then other heroes

U dont build mjollnir first
And at the point when pros build it, its better than bf

Cheap and good easy damage output

Please don't bring BAT into this. it's a stupid argument.

oracle BAT is op. should we build molj. first item on him?

Actually if u already have a fast attacking hero, it's more sensible to pile on damage rather than attack speed

mjolnir was always a tthing for carrys when enemie has 50 armor heroes .And good farmiing item

+DPS% an item gives has no co-relation with BAT of a hero in any way, unless a weird attack modifier is involved (can't think of any right now).

@luxon echo sabre...?

Yeah, that's true. But only because it has a static cooldown. Heroes who attack slower will land less attacks in those 5 seconds and therefore get more benefit from that extra attack.
Though, for instance, if Echo worked differently and gave that extra attack, let's say, on every 7th attack or something like that, it would still be as effective regardless of BAT.

@luxon
Germinate attack comes in my mind

@Luxon tested, confirmed and its already written on http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Attack_speed#Base_attack_time

items that has "Attack speed" gives you more hits per second if you have lower BAT.

@ФАНТОМ_РИКИ
Same as Echo Sabre

@Parte
I was talking about overall DPS increase, not more attacks per second.
If you have 240 attack speed and buy a Moon Shard your DPS will increase by 50% whether you are Juggernaut or Treant Protector.

^wait what?

That can't be right

It is.

luxon is actually right lol. as a math student i can affirm this (given both jugg and treant both have same 240 AS on each hero)

well the thing is they dont have the same attack speed nor dmg. so thats why ur dps increase cant be the same?

Hes partly right. His theory only works on heroes with 1.7 BAT because the attack speed that shows on the blade icon is false with heroes that has different BAT than 1.7. For example, if a unit has 0.85 bat and 100 attack speed, it will show as 200 attack speed because 0.85 seconds is how long a unit with 1.70 BAT and 200 attack speed would take in between attacks

so i tested ur theory. I gave them 240 attack speed, wrote down their dps, and gave them moonshard after that. Thats the result:

Juggernaut's dps increased by %54.922225702057 (1.4 bat)

But Treant's dps increased around only %47.948611686697 (1.9 bat)

drow ranger %49.927219796215 (1.7)

but that still doesnt change the fact that if a hero has low BAT, then it means he will get more hits per second AND more damage per second if it gets items that gives Attack speed. This is why you should buy mjollnir for juggernaut

uhh you are actually right jacked. given any heroes with same damage per hit and they have same attack speed, then buying the same AS item for them increases their dps by same percentage. i forgot about the damage value. but if two heroes have same dps (one maybe attack faster but not stronger, and the other one is vice versa), then luxon's statement is true

EDIT: i was taking a shower after i wrote this comment and i have a little deep thinking and now something doesnt feel right (including what ive said earlier) and now im not sure of anything. yea fuck math

Percentage, dude....

Wow, I actually looked into it and turns out you are right.

Trying to understand the way this mechanic works made me want to commit both suicide and homicide. And after understanding it, my desires became even more fierce.

Turns out lower BAT does imply more DPS% increase from same attack speed bonuses (though the difference is quite small excluding extreme cases like alche ult lvl 3 or summons like familiar).

I still don't understand why would anyone go to the extent of making base attack speed change with BAT and also ending up with 20 and 600 not being minimum and maximum attack speeds for many heroes.

Mjollnir is going to increase your DPS % more if you have less attack speed already. If you have no attack speed bonuses, +80 attack speed is huge, if you have 520 attack speed, 80 attack speed bonus is "meh, probably should've got a damage item" scenario.

However, the case of mjollnir is weird because it has a chance to proc some damage so it still scales with the attack speed you already have.

Thought the same with abraham

@Luxon i know it really doesnt make sense that it shows equivalent attack speed of 1.7 BAT instead of real base attack speed + BAT

btw i felt the same thing while doing 2 hours of testing and researching xD. I was kind of sure about lower BAT heroes getting more dps from attack speed items but i actually never tested it before and now i know that they do get more dps

btw good luck with ur future visage mid spam

It has a few strengths I think many people forgot about until recently. Firstly it undeniably boosts your farm rate a lot, ofc not as much as a BF might but BF has issues of its own, the item is just too slow for the current fast paced meta. Mjollnir boosts your farm rate but doesn't gimp you by forcing you to be a useless hero for the next 10 minutes while you farm actual items. Diffu blade rush after manta is fine if you are planning to end early or if you are a pos 2 from mid but if you are pos 1 you are going to be outfarmed by most cores which is bad if the game drags out a bit. Also you are going to lack waveclear which is almost as big of an issue especially as you move into lategame.

Second it helps a lot against heroes that make illusions of you, jugg tends to build stat heavy especially with the new diffu blade build. This means stuff like morphling, sd, ds all make illusions of you that punch you and your teammates to death. Meanwhile mjollnir not only gives the ability to clear the illusions but it gives them 0 useful stats.

Finally the magic damage from the procs+active gives you a way of dealing with high armour heroes like Morphling and Timbersaw. Also the active is nice for sieging which jugg is already godly at as you can run up to tower, hit it with mjollnir active on and healing ward behind with spin if necessary.

jugg mjollnir is trash, just pros with no balls to go bf shadow blade yasha diffusal build

Mjolnir is a superior battlefury.
Static charge is op, and someone should test whether it procs even when u are spinning and receiving aoe dot damage. (U reflect aoe magic damage with blade mail even if u are bkbd)

The chain lightning is also foking op, 9 slash omni slash prolly gives u 18 attacks in between and thus like 4 procs 900 aoe chain lightning, how is that not op. Combined with static charge that always giving u 4 procs at least which is 800 dmg aoe as well. Sameish clear speed as battlefury but u can spin and proc lightings. Absolutely buttfucks illusions back to the stone edge.

Downside is it does not do shit to bkb targets but so does feedback(mana burn).
Also u should see how manta diffusal butterfly does vs multiple high armor targets, it is absolutely pathetic.

guys should i build mjolnir on am. ive been wanting a new meta build for this god awfully boring hero.

MJOLLNIR IS TRASH, PEOPLE, DON'T LISTEN TO THIS TRASH, DON'T BUY THAT SHIT

Jugg is not a hitting machine like dusa, alchemist and wk. Jugg is supposed to get fast kills and in that manner mojllnir is trash, waste of gold and is asking to feed!! fucking mongo's that buy it, retarded noob brainless fucktards like this guy recommending it. You don't kill the guy with dmg relatively fast, doesn't matter if you got mjollnir on, YOU DIE.

Who should I agree with, the 4k forum shitposter with a sub 50% Jugg winrate, or Wings.Shadow, who literally won TI?

A solid 5/7, Benao never disappoints.

"Meanwhile mjollnir not only gives the ability to clear the illusions but it gives them 0 useful stats."
Think it's one of the main reason guys

lmao this dancer got so fucking rekt deserve a lp game now

go play lp game now , go , hurry

start going mjollnir or keep going mjollnir people
i give you a free analysis of the item on jugg and you just dismiss it like nothing, go buy shadow lifesteal on drow too u fucking c0cksucking trash. u r just trash so why do i even bother

buy mjollnir, you'll be trash forever anyway

You haven't given any analysis, all you said was that Jugg isn't a hitting machine and that he's supposed to get fast kills and I don't understand how that invalidates mjollnir as an item. Stay 4k forever buddy!

Even ignoring the attack speed bat thing, it procs more if you have lower bat cus it procs on hit, it doesn't have a cd like basher. That's why I sad jugs bat makes it better.