General DiscussionCore pheonix

Something like tranq midas veil shiva then luxury like rad hex aghs (situational) octa atos or something

I can't call this hero core or support - just a good all around hero.
Take him offlane and he does great.

Tranq, pipe, wand, midas, instead of veil (unless your team rly needs it) get HH, then Shiva.

Situational (luxury) items are:
1) Heart
2) Sheepstick
3) Whatever else

Buy echo saber and all gona be fine :)

Veil amping sunray and fire spirits with extra spirits dps sounds actually rlly good. If u take him offlane then u r a core, even if u r a utility core like how darkseer is.

i think he has always been the offlaner, has he not?

Support phoenix is so shieeet

Ive seen it in pros as support

Or position 4

That's the ordinary build for Phoenix, all that you mentioned

I was critisized for going veil earlier by higher mmr players.

Phoenix is not exactly the best core but if i were to play it id probably go for midas dagon coz dagoning mid-icarus dive looks so cool

^Now that's revolutionary

For style? So u think core pheonix is bad or pheonix is bad in general?

Here is everything you need to know about birding.

Go offlane, always. Bird blows on safe lane. You need lvls.
Safelane bird can work but I do not have the same success at it.

Bird is amazing for an offlaner, you can screw with enemy carrys farm, and zone the supports. Some hard counters do suck ( silencer for ex.) so you could have trouble.

Items? trans, wand for burst mana.

are you raping the safelane carry and getting tonnes of farm? Go midas. Veil, Shiva, then either Hal, sheep, aghs ( personally love aghs bird, saving a dumb carry after the enemy blew almost all the spells on him is game winning, esp necro ults , you will get many commends for that)Rad bird can work, heart etc. You all know it.

Does the enemy carry have decent supports that are zoning you well and no farm? Go Veil., skip the midas. Veil is so good on bird, everything you want. small components so its to too hard to get.

Then go shiva, sometimes GG or Euls if you have to purge a silence ( think silencer)

Playing the bird: You gotta sit back and wait, unless you got a mag or void, don't be the initiion. Toss out that ray,throw some fire spirits and dive bomb into egg.

Egg placement is so key. You drop the egg right in the middle and everyone will focus you. Sometimes that a good thing, most not.

You need to be in a strange place, like half in the fight half out. This will cause alot of confusion with people I've noticed where some people will be screaming to hit egg, while another hero who has fire spirits wastes about 1-2 secs trying to hit egg, gets scared and runs screwing over the teammmate hitting egg. You pop it in the middle of 5, they focus, you pop in in the back lines, well they won't crack it. Of course this may not be the case at higher MMR's but in high 3 to mid 4 where I play, this is very very common.

Of course this is heavily dependent on how many fire spirits they land, do they have an ursa,LC, LS and what level egg is. Lvl 1 egg is a joke in terms of hits to kill. Usually most of the heros I just mentioned will be jumping you, not the otherway around. SO Ursa skill will be used, same with LC press+duel combo. LS is an issue, he may bait out the egg. that is why you can't initiae on them, or else EZ egg crack

You get aghs + 25 talent of more hits, 15 I think and ya its stupid good. Land some fire spirits and dive right in.

Seriously, birds fun to play and a really good hero . You can offlane, and solo support with stupid high impact in terms of hero damage.

The problem is he is so cd reliant, dive and fire spirits and sunray all have ridiculous cd.

daddy you are delusional

https://www.dotabuff.com/players/114436691/matches?hero=phoenix

i personally hate this individual but at least he is successful

@Daddy, its a valid point. his skills are all long CD due to that fact they can get refreshed, You gotta be careful with them.
@ DJF8 Holy smokes, thats a lot of bird games!!

he has autism

Man, its fun to play the bird, but That is so many games, i Don't even know if it would be fun anymore

So what if u can refresh them, its not like u ult to refresh and there r plenty of times egg doesnt go off, plus egg has a decent cd of its own.

I forgot abt urn tho

@daddy, the entire point of the big team fight is to drop all your spells, egg and then have them refreshed. otherwise your saving your spells, minus fire spirits, you can use those to farm creeps/neautrals since if you time it properly and dont shoot them off all at once, you are only down I think 14 seconds without them.

ODZILLA or SMAUG.

Whereever u are, git ur ass here and answer his question.

not an expert but feels like phoenix is relatively bad hero in general atm

I know the point of refreshing cd, but how does lowering his regular skill cd make this aspect worse

@ I beat Rab8

I wouldn't say he is a bad hero, he can have a very high impact with little farm.
With that said because of the long cool downs and how easy it can be to feed kills in egg form that he isn't NOOB friendly at all.

Also sitting at a sub 50 wr in highest MMRs supports that claim.

Agi carries, Echo saber, BKB all counter him hard, all they have to do is wait until egg drops, then pop BKB and ez smack that egg.
I mean you have to land your fire spirits on a few heros, then pop egg. If they have LS or LC or BKB then the -attack speed disappears and its very easy for 5 heros to hit the egg 2 times each. Dead bird.

I mean I freaking hate playing against a sniper, that hero just destroys phx so hard in egg form, he has to be really out of position otherwise your dead for sure.

For core phoenix, you should buy RADIANCE. It's for cool purpose or meme or whatever though not winning. your list of item is for support phoenix that i always played.

I really love this bird since dota1. I 63.89% win rate on him with 4.89 KDA ratio.
You can go supp if no one ever wanted to supp for your team. But this bird is seriously effective as an offlaner. I always get tranq wand and urn for him. Dagon and ethereal.
It is really cool to dive-ethereal-dagon-ray. Easy pick off for those soft enemy supp heroes and a very easy nuke for cores.
This bird indeed is my favorite hero. Never had a hard time clashing with enemy heroes even there are 4-5 of them. Just use your fire spirits wisely, and your dive, and your ray, and your ulti, you basically need to overpower your enemy's micro skills by yours. This bird always fuck up theirs.
At laning phase, this bird as an offlaner can really piss off enemy's carry.
You can as well build halberd and veil. It really depends.
As a pnx user, i hate huskar and ursa, no prob for sniper for i can pick him off easily sometimes.

tranqs, urn, midas - veil only if it's a snowball type game where you're constantly fighting with your team who are also nukers otherwise i'd rather work on pipe / glimmer (diving and glimmering teammates) or glimmering yourself constantly helps since you're phoenix and on low majority of the time slowing their attack, they'll throw spells at you. glimmer and take almst nothing as damage and if there's too much coming you can always egg after positioning yourself

otherwise i like to get blink before my shivas cause dive just doesn't cut it sometimes for a game changing egg, they get used to it and break it midway and you're forced to egg next to 5 where as i usually dive, wait for them to go in my direction where ever i stopped and blink onto a cliff/uphill and egg