General Discussion

General DiscussionCM BKB first or Agha?

CM BKB first or Agha? in General Discussion
NeGo

    https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3154853517

    Idk but i do feel I should have gotten BKB first on this game rather than getting Aghas. I am seldom out of position but I can't seem to find the right position to use my ulti nicely.

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    Jacked

      aghs pretty bad

      Snu

        Really a question against Invoker + Drow?

        mentally handicapped

          aghs, too many area target skills that can cancel your ulti even if you glimmer

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            I play cm without bkb still winning just improve your positioning mate

            ねずみ

              rush octa core and get permanent root at lv25

              NeGo

                Nah. I seldom play the hero that's why I still am not familiar with her proper itemization. I don't see any problem with how I position her since as you can see I am the guy with the least death whilst being a support. Problem I saw though was late game clashes were quite hard since my ulti usually gets cancelled and thats where I got 3 more deaths. I started 7-1 btw. That was also the time where in I somewhat realized I should have gotten BKB rather than Aghs.

                Undying tilted too since OD farms really slow, and he focused too much on how OD is retarded. OD became tilted also because of UD's flames.

                NeGo

                  I think I'll spam CM on my bracket since you seldom see supports.

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                    You really don't need to cast your ultimate on every team fight try cookie guide but with item urn

                    Jacked

                      how do u even get rich enough to buy aghs. is there sometjhing i dont know about solo supporting in sea.

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                        and one more thing as a solo support you're probably roaming around it's a must to buy a wand it's kinda like a core item

                        also jdf8

                          this is a really dumb question for a couple reasons

                          mentally handicapped

                            in sea you can twist the cores' arms to allow you to kill steal their creeps/kills and take their runes because youre prolly the solo support and without you theyd be wardless and lose the game

                            Jacked

                              Kotl is pretty good at solo supporting in that case

                              mentally handicapped

                                ever wondered why my first few dozen matches had long streaks of kotl?

                                i like kill stealing with my q huehue

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                                  CM is good at solo supporting you can solo kill like everyone

                                  NeGo

                                    @Jacked Idk. First 2 wards and courier were bought by UD. Did all the work after. Jungled til minute 4. Bought smoke and some wards, started rotating mid. 1st rotation was successful. I go back to farming if I don't see any kill opportunities. Got my midas 9 minutes into the game. I think the midas did most of the work. We were actually ahead first 30 minutes of the game. That's why I think I got quite greedy to rush Aghas instead of BKB. I also got the gold talent instead of respawn time.

                                    NeGo

                                      @Nikki. I've read some parts of Cookie guide. Applied some in my recent CM game. Damn. I should have gotten bkb first.

                                      NeGo

                                        @Nikki. I've read some parts of Cookie guide. Applied some in my recent CM game. Damn. I should have gotten bkb first.

                                        Dire Wolf

                                          why would you buy aghs over more team support items? Like mek, greaves (I know everyone goes tranqs on cm but your team had no arcane boots. Undying should have built greaves but he didn't), ghost scepter for you to stay alive vs drow and slark, force staff to keep your team alive, push carries off them, scythe eventually to cc slark, or eul's. Tons of better stuff than aghs.

                                          Jack__Attack

                                            What is this question? The correct answer is either blink or glimmer cape first.

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                                              Dire Wolf says it you really don't need either aghs or bkb that item is selfish you need self sustain while helping a team

                                              bearcat0611

                                                bkb against aoe disables. You can go aghs if your not worried about your ulti getting cancelled and if your getting ults off in the middle of teamfights. otherwise you should be getting utility items to help your team.

                                                NeGo

                                                  @Direwolf Because I got greedy since we were ahead 1st 30 mins of the game. And I also thought Aghs was quite a good item. Never thought I won't be able to use it neatly. I already thought of getting Ghost Scepter before the game even starts, but the tempo of the game was in our favor for the earlier parts. And I stayed alived even without Ghost, so I thought it wasn't that much of a necessity. Nonetheless. I think your statements are on point. Thanks!

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                                                  NeGo

                                                    I now know what to do. Thanks!

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                                                      Just keep playing mate you'll soon enough understand cm and get better at the game the positioning is your friend and utility items

                                                      NeGo

                                                        @Nikki. Yeah. I think I'll spam her for awhile. Thanks btw.

                                                        Jacked

                                                          dont worry. youre probably on your way to 5k. all this is with the benefit of hindsight anyway. usually what you'll see pros do is exactly what you do. they will get items depending on the tempo and state of the game. and then lose with dagon because they memed too hard. but dont be captain hindsight

                                                          bearcat0611

                                                            the aghs is good, especially if you can get to lvl 25. most games this won't happen though so it's generally better to go items for your team. and often your ults won't hit that many people or they'll be able to get out of it.

                                                            Jacked

                                                              pls stop. u get aghs 1 in 50 games maybe

                                                              NeGo

                                                                @Jacked what is hindsight? Lol. Sorry. I'm quite new.

                                                                mentally handicapped

                                                                  hind = back, sight = vision/looking. it means "looking back" and reflecting on what you could have done better. antonym is foresight

                                                                  NeGo

                                                                    ^Lol. I thought it was some kind of DB thing.

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                                                                      Yukiko we play at the same server let's party some other time

                                                                      NeGo

                                                                        ^That would be nice. Go add me.

                                                                        Dire Wolf

                                                                          No it's not good anymore, I think it used to be better cus it increased the slow and damage, but really with the increased slow it allowed it to deal a lot more damage. Now I think it gets interrupted too soon to freeze anyone. And it's a little unnecessary.

                                                                          There's a few support heroes where aghs is core like AA and shadow shama, a few more where it's really good like witch dr and ogre, but most it's a luxury.

                                                                          bearcat0611

                                                                            yeah generally there are better items to go but in an hour long game, you've got all the support items why not go aghs. It's extra control if someone gets caught and it's devestating if you've got other control or for fighting at the pit. and If you frostbite someone before ulting you're pretty much guarenteed to catch them again.

                                                                            LeFlash

                                                                              Hey as an experienced cm player I will recommend you to skip midas most of the games, your skillbuild was the best one untill lvl 8 where you fucked everything up, you need to max that q fast (its an aoe 50% ms and as slow for 4.5 duration and its pretty much your initiation tool), only games I would get extra points in w before maxing the others is if im against am, storm or void (and probably wont even do it).

                                                                              Your talent choice was the best one imo, I argue myself a lot about the lvl 20 talent and I end up taking the gpm like 90% of the games, I feel like they should buff the respawn talent to -40 (but given her popularity I don't think so). At lvl 25 I usually get the frostbite because I like getting aghanims later in the game when bkbs are on 5 sec cd, however I've been testing the crystal nova one and it feels much stronger even if you have aghanims probably.

                                                                              To the actual question you made I'm gonna say what many others said, you needed ghost scepter no matter if you were doing great, they had a lot of rightclickers and its just a great tool to have, also gives you the possibility to upgrade if game goes late. After that you could focus on improving your ultimate and in this particular game I would have chosen bkb + crystal nova damage to be able to consistently dish 550 damage to slark and ult without worrying of invoker.

                                                                              You should grind mmr as much as you can before she gets dem nerfs coming, and looking at your mmr maybe midas is better than I previosuly said. Also consider I started playing her at 4.5k and helped me grind to 5.6 quite easily.

                                                                              Good luck!

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                                                                              NeGo

                                                                                @LeFlash You're quite right. It's funny though because I was following the guides set in-game. I was actually torn between choosing Q or W but I decided to go as to what the guide tells. Lol. Thanks! Big help.

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                                                                                  I don't buy midas on cm i just by my necessities urn,wand and tranqs later dagger i buy wards a lot and dust and sod glimmer and ghost scepter too later on so aghs or bkb is rarely a must buy

                                                                                  NeGo

                                                                                    Personal preferences I guess. All your thoughts are acknowledged. Just need to put it in a box to see what works for me, etc.

                                                                                    Dire Wolf

                                                                                      I like Force staff more than dagger and then luxury pike which isn't just dmg, the cd is lower than staff. But vs slark it's bad cus staff doesn't break leash.