i mean there's quite a high chance that in every game of dota there's at least 1 guy ruining/doing some stupid shit
i don't see why all dumbasses/bad games need to be attributed to a hidden pool
Question : During those massive win streaks could you have played CHEN or IO ( Some low WR hero) and still win the games? Or did you have a to fight tooth and nail to just barely eek out +25 MEMES?
Bungmangler, yes. I was playing Shadow Demon. He is in the bottom half in terms of win rate. Notice how I played support in half of those games? It is near impossible to win with support if the team is autistic. The teams were good and willing to cooperate in those wins.
Ywn, I mean, Valve already officially stated hidden pool existed, so it is not a matter of proving whether it exists but understanding it.
so, in short, you are basing ur opinion on a sample of several games of one person, which on top of everything is you and not someone else; and your own beliefs/impressions?
valve didnt make any statements related to hidden pool at any point of time except for a 4 years old unclear post on dota dev
But they are doing it. We can just complain about it. Games are shit and not even mine only. They created this trend and pubs are just a pain in the ass. Before I would just enjoy every game even in a 20 loss streak, now I can't even enjoy wins or the game past picking stage even.
a statement rearding putting high bs ppl with new players = admittance that hidden pool exists 
i was looking at your data, and trying to see a pattern, but i dont. or maybe the sample is not big enough. anyway: you lose randomly (could be playing bad) but you attributed it for some reason to horrible teammates (subjective, unconfirmed), and you concluded that you were in hidden pool for some unknown reason, while not addressing other possible more likely reasons. one of the possible reasons being that once every few games you might get random people who for no good reason want to play jungle LC. it is up to you to label that as toxic and "hidden pool-ish". as though people do not have the free will to choose what kind of stupid heroes they want to pick, or that 5 completely different people are expected to cooperate 100%, while if you don't = bad behavior = hidden pool type behavior.
then you claim winning 5 games of 1 v 1 resulted in winstreaks or cooperative teams. of course there are a lot of things that could explain this effect, but you choose to stick with the theory that it removes your hiddenpool while not addressing the other possibilities (and not discounting why they can't be true). other possibilities include, the effect of taking a break from ranked, untilting, or random variance/losses from people with different playstyles from you, clashing hero pools, resulting in you losing and dropping below your true mmr range.
Then when games become easier, and if this is followed by random chance that you get matched with a cooperative team, you get the illusory impression that youre winning because of a cooperative team.
TripleSteal- and Alenari, I am not referring to the behaviour score post or the shadow pool post for botters. I am referring to this one. http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=136838&p=1086255&viewfull=1#post1086255 It is extremely clear the developer is describing hidden pool. We already had a thread on this. I will not bother arguing about its existence. If people want to ignore a Valve developer, it is their loss.
We are making some improvements to matchmaking to put players with similar play styles together. For example, players who repeatedly abandon games before they begin, or intentionally throw the match. We want to make sure these sorts of players can more easily find each other, to increase everybody's enjoyment of the game.
so coorect me if im wrong, what ure saying is that u are a gameruiner and a moron, since the system put u in a pool of gameruiners and morons?
diox, firstly, I have little reason to favour the existence of hidden pool. I got my 5k. I barely care.
anyway: you lose randomly (could be playing bad) but you attributed it for some reason to horrible teammates (subjective, unconfirmed),
Not really. It was basically if they were a core and fed, I deemed them as a bad teammate. This is based on their score, so it is not that subjective. If they were supporting, as a support main, I know very well what they should be doing and can easily highlight their mistakes. Being toxic is 30% of the bad teammate criteria.
and you concluded that you were in hidden pool for some unknown reason,
Wrong. I clearly stated in the post the reason for hidden pool was getting at least 2 reports.
while not addressing other possible more likely reasons.
Feel free to provide more reasons.
one of the possible reasons being that once every few games you might get random people who for no good reason want to play jungle LC.
Wrong again. They literally told me in chat they did not want to play support, so they will pick LC jungle instead. This resulted in us having no safe lane support for both of those games.
it is up to you to label that as toxic and "hidden pool-ish". as though people do not have the free will to choose what kind of stupid heroes they want to pick, or that 5 completely different people are expected to cooperate 100%, while if you don't = bad behavior = hidden pool type behavior.
I understood the first sentence but the rest makes no sense.
then you claim winning 5 games of 1 v 1 resulted in winstreaks or cooperative teams. of course there are a lot of things that could explain this effect, but you choose to stick with the theory that it removes your hiddenpool while not addressing the other possibilities (and not discounting why they can't be true). other possibilities include,
I said I was experimenting for a month and narrowed it down to winning 5 games. I tested getting a clean conduct summary. I tested a high behaviour score. I reviewed those games were I lost just then again, and I am certain I lost because my team was terrible.
the effect of taking a break from ranked, untilting
In the 2nd image, all the games were played mostly within a day.
or random variance/losses from people with different playstyles from you, clashing hero pools,
I suppose it is possible. Though, I doubt it would be big enough of a factor for me to lose most of the game.
resulting in you losing and dropping below your true mmr range.
I am 5k currently and I was 4.7k in those games, so I was playing 300 mmr below my current mmr, meaning my team should have had an advantage. That fact they lost shows they are bad.
Then when games become easier, and if this is followed by random chance that you get matched with a cooperative team, you get the illusory impression that youre winning because of a cooperative team.
In the 2nd image, I lost 2 games and I still deemed my team as cooperative? Also, I was playing support in half the games. Your argument is really only plausible if I was mostly playing core. As a support, the team literally must be cooperative or I cannot help them. Say if I want to set up a gank on someone, if my team does not listen, I cannot set up that gank.
We are making some improvements to matchmaking to put players with similar play styles together. For example, players who repeatedly abandon games before they begin, or intentionally throw the match. We want to make sure these sorts of players can more easily find each other, to increase everybody's enjoyment of the game.
so coorect me if im wrong, what ure saying is that u are a gameruiner and a moron, since the system put u in a pool of gameruiners and morons?
I do not have to be a ‘gameruiner and a moron’ to get placed in that pool. The system just checks for reports and places people there. The fact I have a 9.9k behaviour score and get 5 commends on average shows otherwise.
the developer said theyre placing the players with similar play styles together;
u have high behavior core and commends and whatever and just a sweetheart in general
yet u get put with scum
something doesnt coincide here dont u think?
the developer said they are placing the players with similar play styles together;
u have high behavior core and commends and whatever and just a sweetheart in general
yet u get put with scum
something doesnt coincide here do not u think?
How do you think a program can determine whether someone is game ruining? Before you say feeding detection, that did not exist until recently. The program is inhuman. It cannot think like a human and determine that. Therefore, the system relies on input from humans (reports) to determine this.
i've actually stated this before, that its recent reports and abandons, that get punished, not low behavior score.
if this idea is true it also has a spiral effect as people who get reported and are toxic tend to report alot
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Valve has stated hidden pool exists (http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=136838&p=1086255&viewfull=1#post1086255 ): ‘We are making some improvements to matchmaking to put players with similar play styles together. For example, players who repeatedly abandon games before they begin, or intentionally throw the match. We want to make sure these sorts of players can more easily find each other, to increase everybody's enjoyment of the game.’ You can choose to believe a Valve developer or not. It is not my concern.
So, I have been experimenting over the past month to learn about hidden pool. I am now certain that getting at least 2 reports will send someone to hidden pool. There might be other factors, but this what I have narrowed now. To remove hidden pool 5 wins in any game mode is needed. 1v1 practice mid mode is the fastest to achieve this. Valve recently stated, ‘First, being marked for low-priority matches now results in a duration-based ban from the Ranked queue, in addition to the current game-count-based low priority requirement. The ban will start at a low threshold of a few hours, and increase up to four days for players who are very frequently in low priority’, so there is also a slight possibility that hidden pool also depends on letting a certain amount of time elapse similar to lp. Look at these 2 cases (read the images from bottom to top):
Getting commended will not stop hidden pool punishment (I had 5 average per conduct). Having a high behaviour score will not stop hidden pool (I had 9.8k bs during the testing).
There are a few things to note:
a hidden-pool player will always have hidden pool players on his team and can play against hidden-pooled players or non-hidden-pooled players. The proof the conduct summary. It states 77% of players have less than 3 reports, meaning hidden-pooled players would have significantly longer queue items (almost 5 times longer) if they could only be matched with each other. This is not so.
hidden pool can actually be advantage. I do not know why and my data for this is limited, so take this with a grain of salt. I think hidden pool is a massive disadvantage from 12 to 5 pm. Then it is an advantage from 5 to 9 pm. Then it is a disadvantage from 9 pm to 12 am. I am unsure about other times.