I don't play Invoker at all. But I've played with a lot of Invokers and I can feel/tell if they're impacting the game or not. The Brown Boots, Midas, into Scepter build leaves you very weak against ANY competent midlaner and you'll have a VERY hard time pushing the enemy T1. Pretty much forces your supports to commit resources on your lane for very little payoff.
Also, Midas is an outdated item in the current meta. Pretty much never bought.
With Treads (and, if you realize, sometimes Aquila), your right clicks alongside Alacrity makes you into a very scary tower pusher and just a better fighter in general. If done right (AGI Treads for jungling, etc.), you farm faster too.
Sumiya goes to threads then force staff before Aghs coz he is a great invoker player. 3 spells is more than enough for him. He can even hit you with a sideway ice wall from a tornado.
Imo, Hand of Midas is still a must have item for Invoker. The XP bonus from Midas is really helpful. By the time you got your aghs, your quas wex exort are already high level.
Just like tinker, where soul ring is better than rushing travel or AM going threads first before fury.
P.S. I'm not a good invoker player too.
Midas is just bad overall rn, even on voker (Still musthave on Ark tho)
If the enemies plays passive u can afford it, otherwise double null/null aquila + pt is the build.
pt on agi + aquila + alacrity + full wex + cold snap and some shit surely guarantee you kill any squishy heroes, it does stupid amount of damage
I still go the midas build mostly, but powertreads aquila > scepter is very cost efficient and can be alot nicer if you are behind I feel.
Treadswitching, and at level 8 with PT + aquila and 3-1-4 build you can easily kill most mid cores with coldsnap nado meteor
The meta in last patches has all revolved around being strong early, snowballing an early created advantage into objectives and map control, then snowballing it furthur into more items and aegis then end
Midas is an item that pays off a long time after buying it, and leaves u weak for like 10 mins cuz u are basically 2000+ gold behind from ur actual networth and slowly gaining it JUST BACK while if u buy cost efficient items u have boosted urself by that amount of gold.
So a midas = 2000~ gold spent almost not adding anything to u
Power treads = 1500 gold spent making u stronger
And cuz of the my point at the start, it's way more efficient to go treads
then why do pro players like miracle build midas then agh in pro matches IF treads is more better than midas ?
miracles build is outdated, theyre also not picking invoker anymore, maybe they could if he changed to sumiyas build
I either go aquila treads drums or Aquila Midas
Maybe just going treads Midas might be ok, I just can't hit a good aghs timing without Midas and I feel like my invoker play isn't that good without aghs
Maybe I shud just play more treads invoker to practice?
Well dude u think anyone got good the first time they tried smth? Ofc u arent good if u havent played at least 20 matches or smth with the new build while already having played invo enuf to play him
good mechanically
Read my first comment here. It's better to do the stats invo rather than midas invo and play aggressively cuz of those items (not suicidal, aggressively). If u arent good at it but like invo, practice it
I personally played a lot of invo and didnt really like him after all. He wasn't my type and he truly comes online with aghs which is like 15-20 mins in which most cores have one or two major items and levels, that makes them strong.
Heroes like brood clinkz arc seemed my type cuz of that early advantage
i still build the midas https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3863057833
but i regret it probably should have some pt 1 null and aquila or so, fortunately my 5 carry team can hold the match till 50 minute or so lel
Midas was core because of xp. After nerfs it's a poor xp item, so it's not core anymore. Besides Arc I think you should never buy it.
The fact that think about a toxic person's words and not instamute them and totally forget they are toxic will hold u back unless u change it
I am still improving with invoker but I realize that I might be too aghs dependent as a player
The current 3 spell combos I know rn r cold snap meteor, cold snap forges sunstrike, shit like that, but I think I need to get better at using tornado on 3 quas, and using the cold snap tornado meteor combo better
Invoker midas is still a thing.
Invoker doesnt need to manfight early games (unless your sumiya). Midas greatly helps him mid to late game. Even you look on dotabuff invoker guides, most of them still buy Hand of Midas.
By the time you have your aghs on around 20mins, you have enough level/XP and mana pool so you can spam your spells w/o worry.
A 16mins aghs but w/o midas sounds good on paper but your level is still low on 16mins. You can only cast 3 to 4 spells.
You can try it for yourself. Invoker with Midas is still better.
U'r thinking about micro too much dude. Macro is way more important. What combos u use dont matter as much as when u should farm and when u should push and where u should be on the map and etc
I have more than 250 games on Invoker with a decent winrate, as he is the first hero I learned in Dota2. Irrespective of how the game is going, nowadays I always end up getting a 16-17 min aghs. I follow a simple build - go null, fairie fire and a branch and take a tango or two from a support. Then, without getting boots, get a straight midas. Getting this midas by around 7 min is amazing for both the gold and XP inflow. Then complete brown broots, and then go ahead and complete your aghs. Other pointers for getting a quick aghs timing:
1) Stay in lane. Do not gank, only help with sunstrikes. Invoker is too slow and you lose too much XP if you go to gank.
2) At exort level 5, meteor the lane, call a clarity, and jungle close the lane. Keep a lookout for suntrikes.
3) At Quas level 3 and Wex level 1+, use the Sumiya lane combo on anyone who shows. It is instant kill. First cold snap into tornado and then immediately invoke and cast meteor. One or two right clicks will finish the job.
4) Collect bounty runes, they help a lot.
5) Always alacrity the siege creep next to the tower. It is the easiest way to take the mid tower.
6) In lane, get your CS perfect. Focus a lot on denying the ranged creep, it will help you outlevel the enemy mid. Do not hesitate to spam clarities and forge spirits in lane. They cannot possibly outlast-hit you.
After a quick aghs, just go around tornado sunstriking supports or comboing carries. Ez game, while the enemy team is flaming their mid for losing.
treade gives u hp mana and armor whenever u want and sumiya is a player that likes to fight instead going to farm and afk jungle so he gets a treade boot and goes for some kills thats it
midas got buffed does this mean midas on voker is going to be a thing again ?
listen to me. You will get trashed if you go midas, unless you are WAY better at lasthitting than your opponents. There will be ganks. Other people will take every tower you have while you are still farming your midas. You need mana for your early game, midas doesnt do that. I agree with one of the posters above, Midas is actually the most useless item in the game right now. I remember when it was 1.6k gold, it was worth it. Now look at the price, and you yourself do a cost-benefit analysis and tell me what redeeming feature the item has right now. Every mid will leave lane, and go help their team once your tower is down, or even halfway down. While you'll be hitting creeps, and the game will just move on too far without you. You will never be able to come back as an invoker unless your team can win somehow deal with your enemy mid, which was supposed to be your job.
get with the times. Midas is really really shit. Calculate the extra exp it grants per minute in terms of creeps and then you will realize there are much better choices for leveling up. Even maelstrom would get you levels faster.
I am not invoker player, but how is midas helping hit timing for aghs? And what is the point of midas anyway now?
You usually get it around 8-10 minutes, if you rush it (null, brown boots, midas). It is paid fully after 18-20 minutes, so around 25-30 minutes you are not paying for it anymore.
So it doesnt help with item timings (usually by 30 minutes you have at least 2-3 big items - aghs, eul/force/blink+bkb/linkens), doesnt help you fight or farm (only 30AS), I would say slow your farm actually while farming for it (5 minutes while you have PT or aquila).
Helping with levels is as well questionable - gives you 50XPM extra if you get always big creep every 95 seconds, 38 if you get ranged creep) + those few seconds killing that creep. Which early is significant, later is non factor. Even if you calculate full XP (you wouldnt kill otherwise the creep and you are taking every 95 seconds big creep) it increases your XPM by 110 maximum. That means that if you manage this, you need to use this way midas for 11 minutes to get enough XP to have 1 level advantage after level 13.
To compare it - same XP as for using midas on ranged creep you get for dewarding obs 10 minutes into the game.
By 18 minutes you are around lvl 13-15. For 1 level you need >1200XP, so it provides you less than a level advantage after having item for 10 minutes in your inventory.
So conclusion:
1) Provides bonus gold after 25 minutes of game (if you have it before 8 minutes) and prolong your item timings before this time
2) Provides extremelly low XP bonus (around 1 level after 25 minutes)
3) Provides no help in fights, farming
I would say that even going Maelstrom, MoM, hyperstone for farming might be more efficient GPM and XPM wise. If you max exort, you have shitload of dmg and with AS of MoM/hyperstone you clear jungle in 2 minutes twice. Or maelstrom with wex invo.
Even Necro1 might be more efficient - pretty much same price, you get 2 warriors with 30 seconds uptime (CD90, lasts 60), help with pushing, you can kill easily ancients/half the jungle.
And let’s not forget that, when the patch is all about denies in the laning stage, then giving yourself a 2k net worth disadvantage for the first 10mins is not helpful.
No need walls of text. Midas is just a slow item, you don't pressure enemies with it. It has no place in the current meta.
midas only delays ur farm if ur a bad invoker who misses ur sunstrikes. just get treads and aghs
So when do i buy midas on voker and when do i not buy midas on voker ?? Coz i still see players making midas. BTW i get midas 8 - 10 and scepter at 16 - 18. I still win games with midas. I can last hit as well (50 - 55 at 10 min mark AVG)
well it depend on your gameplay tho if u feel good with midas then do it... just do whatever build u like that u comfortable with thats the point
After seeing all of this i went to que up for a rank match where i found power treads was really strong in early game. It helped me get few kills and helped me gank other lanes. But it was hard for me to get 16 min scepter with out fighting. At first when i tried. i got scepter after 21 mins coz i was still playing like i had midas instead of treads. so i decided to gank more in next match which ended me having a 16 min scepter. I think midas is good for people who like to farm instead of fighting for example a posi1 invoker. PT is good for people who like to fight early on and get kills. With PT i was able to create space for my carry as well so i think PT is good for a posi 2 voker and midas is good for posi 1 voker coz midas shines after 20 and can give alot of gold in the late
U don't need scepter at 16 u shud have it before 20 tho
U can definitely hit the same timing with treads as u can with midas
Don't get tirggerd. i get it why midas is a bad item on voker OK and i did the maths exp gain from midas is not good either i get it .
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i ve seen most of the people on my skill level go for boots then midas then scepter on invoker but when i watched sumiya play he always went for treads and then scepter on invoker?Any reason why ?