love it. we can run with both forge spirits and alacrity in lane now, and still have no problems invoking an ice wall, sunstrike or a cold snap.
Also, midas CD reduced by 5, that is kind of significant for invo midas goers and for arc.
Laning might turn easier for invo now that manacost is removed. Aquila is all that is needed, although i did have to ferry a couple of clarities for a 3-4 minute jungle to reach that scepter. Tried a game, went smoothly, it was lina mid,
but then again i play in NS bracket xD
I went null basi null aquila
Midas is still dead imo, maybe a bit better on arc warden
But idk if u get it on voker unless u got a totally free lane
dont think theres ever a scenario where you go midas on invoker this patch, would have to be CD reduced to 60-70seconds to be worth it - and xp buffed. running alac rn and it works pretty nicely vs unfavorable matchups like WR etc
yes totally free lane, had midas scepter in 16 minutes, after boots null aquila wand,
Again, this is NS bracket, where enemy would give the space to invo- team to play 4v5 and still not lose, while invo is busy farming the scepter. i almost always dominate the lane against favorable matchups, and thus am able to get away with these items by 17-18 minutes and then i make space for the carry, or we push if i feel i am the strongest hero on the map at that point.
Doesn't always work because i am actually a poor laner against unfavorable matchup. My brain just stops working when that pressure starts kicking in. Explains why i am in archon :P
Invoker is a heavily overpowered hero (even more overpowered now) and you are talking about much needed buffs? haha
best part of this discussion is that every user here except 1 guy is an invoker spammer and every single one of those except 1 guy is struggling @ 50 percent winrate - in other words trash players, most of you archon too.
If it were up to me I would ban invoker forever, together with pudge, broodmother and sky mage. Those are currently most overpowered heroes and they deserve serious nerfs, not buffs. But hey, icefrog is a fool, has been a fool for a while now and valve turned into a circus company with that medals bullshit. The whole system doesn't work, sorry.
before any of you invoker spamming losers attack me, I'll just say shut the fuck up. Your hero has a global spell that can deal 500 PURE dmg after few minutes of the game... not even mentioning the fact that as the game progresses, he got a whole shitload of overpowered spells.
i had a good laugh at this thread
high legend player complains about invoker being overpowered while having zeus as most played.
invoker is one of the weakest laners and gets countered easily, he's a pretty weak hero in the current meta
^ i agree.
The only thing invoker good at early game is his high attack damage, which is great for last hit and deny.
Late game invoker is pretty scary though.
high legend player which has a main acc of ancient 4(not that it means much, with these new tokens everyone is ancient nowadays) so I'll just say I'm around 4.5k mmr and got there without spamming overpowered heroes or heroes that are easy to gain mmr with if you are good with them since you have more control (storm, TA, SF, lina)
Zeus isn't overpowered, has bad cs potential with auto attack ( it remains to be seen how much +5 attack damage helps this patch), and needs a lot of items to turn into a powerhouse. Hero is more than balanced. Also the next time you call a hero overpowered state some facts instead of talking random bs that I will just address and crush of course.
Invoker that has gazillion attack damage with last hit and deny within first few minutes(basically more than SF unless SF has max souls)
Invoker that can easily get +10hp regen with just different instances within few minutes and go back to full hp after 1 creep wave
Invoker that can has gazillion spells can be countered easily?
Invoker that has cheap combo that can easily reach 1kdmg+ with little mechanics so that even noobs can pull it off(classic meteor, tornado, u dont even need disarm or coldsnap).
Invoker that has completely overpowered cold snap that simply lasts too long. ALSO ye, complete bullshit that it triggers the moment he casts it on you without hitting you at all.
Invoker that can turn invis when he wants and simply forces you to get detection(I always buy a dust, and it almost always pays off cos some scumbag goes invis, not to mention there are instances where he runs away with almost haste speed due to overpowered spell combo's)
Invoker that has aoe disarm as talent?
Invoker that has a never ending tornado range? (that range alone should be CUT IN HALF, its insane how much that tornado pushes forward)
yeah.... very weak laner indeed. Not to mention that when someone is actually good with that hero all one needs is a scepter(not even that to be honest). The rest of the items are situational (bkb, linken, blink, hex, refresher, eul)
Dat arrogance of calling a hero that has x2 attack points on average (in regards to a mid opposition apart from SF) a weak laner. Typical invoker spammer, what else to say. Not to mention that most of the guys who 1st pick or take away mid regardless of -roll outcomes are invoker spammers. All you fucking need on the lane is control of last hits and denies + 1 ward and u won the lane already on most mmr. Combine it with the fact of cheap 500 pure damage global spell for additional gold and u won the early game.
Invoker didn't need a buff...
Have they nerfed tinker yet? For example making it so dagger can't be refreshed! (edit: with ulti)
Did invoker steal your lunch at school when you were little? Why are you getting so sore? Calm the hell down boy. Your opinions may be valid, but what is that sense of desperation xD
@bourge and there we go, some random mmr lowbob tries to provoke me.
You wanted an invoker discussion, now you got it. You are desperate with such sad comments with no arguments.
fact remains, a hero that is overpowered doesnt deserve a buff, it deserves a nerf, or better yet, NERFS.
@bitcoin
typical response. You remind me of those flatearth tards - everything you don't like about your theories, you choose to ignore. Classic defensive mechanism. Fact remains you have nothing smart to say given the fact that my arguments are set in stone and provide clear line of thought and logic.
you're a coconut. you're not supposed to be this salty! Think you should reconsider the tree you fell from.
@Bitcoin - I'm gonna download a replay of your last invoker match (won) and steal your tricks. Want to see how you work the bloodthorn.
a buff for the lanning phase, he can now alternate his spells at need, and taking what is immediately needed (like cold snap or forge) without fear that you won't have mana for that clutch sunstrike in 10 seconds
very much needed, invoker is dumpster now
@Bourgeosie, very situational - very rarely get bloodthorne, but I change the build depending on the game
@Coco, the earth isn't flat? /s
But in all seriousness, you could find as many arguments as you want regarding what his spells does and the mechanics of the hero - nothing changes the FACT that the hero is straight garbage in laning and has almost only skillshots which any decent or subpar player will be able to evade. He gets REKT in lane against any competent mid player where invoker isnt lastpick
if you get rekt mid by playing invoker on an average basis you are just bad then.
the hero has massive attack damage to control the lane with last hits and denies. not to mention he can easily combine his instances to get insane amounts of HP regen to get back in the lane after 1 creep wave while your opponent sits back at low mana. and with this newest buff, he has even more control.
SERIOUSLY CALLING A HERO THAT HAS MOST DENIES PER GAME IN DOTA AS STRAIGHT UP GARBAGE LANING JUST PROVES YOU ARE FUCKING INSANE
and rofl @ skillshots. this isn't LoL. invoker has very little skillshots. All you need to do is hit tornado, and its gg.
classic invoker spammer bragging about 'skillshots'. Skill in invoker comes from manipulating spells at the appropriate moment, and not bragging about throwing chaos meteor and disarm on a helpless hero in the air being tornado'ed.
Once you get a tornado off, any subpar player that has the VERY BASIC KNOWLEDEGE of invoker can follow up and deal 1k+ dmg. and that's talking early game...Skillshots my ass.... windranger's shuckle is a skillshot, and invoker is just a cancer that has to be cured by banning for life.
in all seriousness you didn't counter a single argument of mine but just repeated the same bullshit about his weak laning. You sound like a broken record. a hero that has such insane attack points isn't weak in lane. Every game I play vs that trash hero he just denies a creep at like half hp given how sick his attack damage is. YOU CALL THAT BALANCED :d:dd:D:d:d:d:dD: ???? It should be nerfed to the ground.
you know what brings me the most joy in dota? beating invoker spammers and calling them out in chat post game. They get so mad, they think they are so good and 'skilled' and probably think that throwing a tornado and following up with a few spells is a skill shot :DD:d.Dd:D:D.
trash hero for trash players
maybe you should just get good, I don't know what garbage players you play vs in legend/ancient bracket - but any competent midplayer is gonna do fine vs invoker mid
note; competent
its true though. try laning as invoker against any of the following -
timber, dragon knight, PA, wind, sniper, viper, razor, kunkka, qop, OD....the list goes on....
i guarantee you will change your tune then.
Don’t see how a 5sec reduction in Midas makes any difference in the real world. How often do you instantly use Midas when it is off cooldown? And even if you do all it means is an extra usage 1,900 secs after you pick it up!
Invoker can also do fine himself . Couple of exort levels allows him to, lets say, withstand a lane against Shadow Fiend (recent early souls nerf) who can't even pressure too heavily at level 5 and so.
Also id playong for fun definitwly would consider an early dagon 1 out of the null tali since the mana pool is freed up (dagon costs only 120 mana so its not awful on paper)
@bourg + @bitcoin
you are both ignorant fools, refusing to accept facts. fact is the hero is overpowered on almost any level. fact is the hero has highest denies in this game for a reason.
ciao idiots, enjoy spamming overpowered heroes
brood, enchantress, bloodseeker, arc warden, meepo, medusa, huskar, visage, weaver, morphling.... man isn't that half the hero pool already xD
The tooltip on Aghs is triggering me now, they haven't removed the "removes manacost" from the Aghs tooltip
Yeah 49%~ winrate on divine. Volvo pl0x nerf , b00f my braindead cancerous zeus, cuz he is so weak . God, some ppl need to get out of their big bubble of ignorance, and start playing dota as a team game not as a 1v5.
Maybe his skills look 0p on paper, but in reality they are not and requires little brain to dodge them. But since u're so ignorant, no point to tell u anything .
Keep playing ur *sobalancedzeuscuzhislaningplahseissheet*.
I still go for forges because I don't feel comfortable without the extra quas level for Regen early
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3918430975
I got a 17 min aghs with treads 2 nulls and Aquila before it
I did well in the laning stage but my midgame performance is just ass lmao
Laning is still soooo much easier tho
@coconut
Anything else you would like to add?
And as Bourgeoisie says, almost 80% of the midlaners beat invoker badly in lane, you act as if the laning phase is all about hitting creeps and not ever harassing/trading when lasthitting - I guess there's one of many reasons why you are legend
@Sisyphus lmao this guy
Also - how do you feel about your IO nerfed while my invo gets buffed? ggnore
Please dont fight against each other my brothers. After all, we all family on this dota forum
was clinkz even picked in recent year in the pro scene? like AT ALL?
you all kidding about that he wasn't in a need for buffs right? he is (or was, we would find out) one of the least impactful heroes in coordinated games nowadays
idk what is the problem with coco,
i agree, his spell combos are pretty easy to land even for someone in archon level ( me)
But trust me, most of the time it works in low mmr bracket( mine ) because ppl dont itemise properly or gank mid initially to delay his aghs, and group up and take towers, forcing enemy out of the jungle, it is like how ppl would not buy forcestaffs and ghost scepters as supports, unless its a carefully last-picked invoker, its really hard to work it out, especially in higher mmr,
my winrate with invo is 68% with about 200 games only coz people in my mmr brackets are noobs or dont know how to deal with it. Also, if u are party, it makes sure u get rotations if ganked, and also they make sure u don't get concentrated in fights as well. I would say invoker is strongest when he just has his aghs pre 20 min, and then late game when BKB timings are low and/or he gets a scythe.
But in lane he can easily lose to a kunka, a pa, a pl, etc. Personally i hate going mid agnst PA and kunka.
At lvl 6, kunka can solo kill u and unless u outplay him using tornado so that he cant time the x back to ship, you are surely solo killed by him. And if i could do that, i wont be in archon, will i?
But, wtf man, damage and regen is not the only thing about laning, he is getting these buffs so that he will be viable picks with good laning stage as well. Personally i welcome it, but id have prefered a movespeed bonus than the mana cost buff i think.
Also legend/ancient people saying 50% wr in divine.. blah blah blah, i am pretty sure its tough to play a hero like invoker in divine than in ancient, and same goes for me, once i reach legend, just being able to land combos and use icewalls ( which rarely anyone in my bracket does) is not gonna be enough to keep my wr up at 68%. So , welcome invoker buffs!
Also, dont be a Rickon Stark, learn to zigzag and you will live and doge the ss , ffs
But i do agree, when i watch the sumiya stream i do feel invo is OPed, when he solo kills an am/void etc with the combo at 25 minutes into the game.
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Thoughts?
Personally I think doing the Cold Snap, Tornado, Meteor combo can now be viable at levels 6/7 with 2 points Quas - even using Alacrity alot more in lane might not be too bad.
Will have to play some games to investigate, but that's initial thoughts.
MUCH needed buff nevertheless, seems insanely good on paper