General Discussion

General DiscussionHeroes to counter Axe?

Heroes to counter Axe? in General Discussion
Extvia

    Like, I find Axe VERY annoying, cause his tankiness in the early game is broken and already know some item based combos that hurt him real bad, but what heroes by default counter the bullshit helixing monster that is Axe?

    So far, I've found Gyro and Pugna to be useful against him, cause Gyro just has magic nukes left and right, something Axe doesn't have super tanky resistance against, and Pugna because Decrep and any amount of magic will rip his health away.

    这主题被编辑过
    SUP

      Slark with essence shift or whatever it's called the third skill owns axe. Just PRESS R before he can dunk you or else u look like a clown.

      Extvia

        You mean Pounce?

        SUP

          Essence ShiftNot blocked by Spell Immunity. Not blocked by Linken's Sphere. Cannot be purged. Cannot be used by illusions. EN
          Essence Shift icon.png
          Ability Affects
          Passive Enemy Heroes
          Slark steals the life essence of enemy heroes with his attacks, draining each of their attributes and converting them to bonus Agility.
          All Attributes Lost per Attack: 1
          Agility Gained per Attack: 3
          Duration: 15/30/60/120
          With each strike at his adversaries, Slark's knowledge of their weaknesses improves.

          Extvia

            I forget which one Pounce is, it's either 2nd or 3rd, but as far as the ult goes, I need something that can shut down Axe before the ult, cause him creepblocking or zoning people out by tanking makes it hard to get ult quickly

            SUP

              you can kill him with your ranged support just by 1 lvl in essence shift and maybe pounce if you manage to hit level 2. it's super easy to kill axe just with essence shift just dont run at him while he has a creep wave around him and get spun on like an idiot and you are fine

              Extvia

                k, so Slark can be added to the list of Axe counters then I suppose.

                Hopeless

                  magic burst damage

                  Greygrey the Sailor

                    Counters to axe:
                    Morphling:He out tanks axe and can raise his health to make axe blow his ulti for 0 kills
                    BristleBack:He out tanks axe.
                    Silencer:Being that axe needs to pop his berserker's call and then the dunk, last words breaks up this combo
                    Bloodseeker:Use the blademail/damage amp trick to kill axe :P

                    Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                      Counters to Axe in the early laning phase, in order:

                      Dark Seer
                      Broodmother
                      Huskar
                      Treant
                      Razor
                      Storm (if mid lane)
                      TA
                      SF
                      Ursa
                      Abaddon
                      Tide
                      PA

                      However, with the right support for Axe then you need to have 3 range or strong stuff like Undying+Treant+Veno

                      tapir1

                        Brood 2nd best axe counter. you heard it here first^

                        Greygrey the Sailor

                          ^ right behind meepo and after natures prophet, enchant and then EVERY THING ELSE...

                          kr

                            gyrocopter razor clockwork omni viper od winterwyvern shadow demon pugna

                            probalby more

                            Blackwolf

                              along viper i must mention lifestealer....

                              B56

                                U guys r making me cry here with ur counters lol , slark hurts axe with essence but he does to every single hero , while imo axe is more of a counter to slark , since call is not purgable and can hit him while he is invs , axe is more counter to bristle since bristle depends heavily on physical dmg and axe have tons of armour + axe forces bristle to look at him , much like duel, blood seeker blademail amp is removed , to lyr i wont talk about any hero u mentioned except ta , ta have low range and can be raped by axe at lane , call increase his armour that meld not hurt .

                                OnE of the best counters as a support to axe is witch doctor , axe playstyle is go in tank every thing , with meldict its not the case , u go in take meldict now ur forced to run , or u will die 90%
                                Storm can make axe have hard time since storm depends on magical damage from overload and remanat

                                Zeus and spectre will remove his dagger

                                Timber will hurt him alot

                                Imo the best counter to axe is positioning and knowing ur strength , if u cant brust him down just dont let him have his dream call and kill his team while kiting him

                                SUP

                                  All I know is when people pick axe and im on slark I win and when they do the whole imma take ur creep wave and fuck ur grill i kill him

                                  MOA KIKUCHI ASTRALIS

                                    lyralei, ta is not an axe counter at any phase of the game

                                    这回复被编辑过
                                    TripleSteal-

                                      timber
                                      necro
                                      zeus
                                      medusa (not really a counter though - she just doesnt care about you)
                                      witch doctor

                                      Pom Pom 🍕

                                        shadow demon disruption
                                        eul's scepter and vlads
                                        qw invoker
                                        venomancer (ward build)
                                        Dragon Knight with dragon blood
                                        Sven warcry
                                        Omniknight guardian angel.
                                        Timber ignores his berserker armour with pure damage and when your ulti is out, you can't attack axe at all if he calls you.
                                        Zeus and Sniper can similar to veno just stop his blink with static link/shrapnel so he won't jump on your team.

                                        Pilot

                                          lyralei, majority of the heroes you mentioned are countered by axe

                                          Also, ranged supports with slows or stuns own him early

                                          mwsqz

                                            there is no "counter" to axe

                                            bum farto

                                              There is no direct counter to Axe but he is hindered by some heroes more than others. Much like TA you would assume that picking Viper or Veno will instantly win you vs a TA but a lot of the very good TA players I know simply don't give a shit because they know they can beat them.

                                              Axe is countered by not being a retard, and playing smart. Pro tip if you have a stun or an escape don't stand near to creeps or a cluster of heroes. If you knew there was a Magnus you wouldn't do the same thing either.

                                              Axe does well in team fights cause he can draw aggro and use heroes/creeps to spin but if caught alone can be 1v1'd by practically anyone in the game.

                                              bum farto

                                                Slark gets utterly wrecked by a good Axe in both laning and afterwards unless you're caught out.

                                                Venomancer does well cause it holds Axe at bay but still again, a decent Axe player will use stuff like smoke to get around the wards to get a good blink

                                                01:53 Axe's auto attack killed Venomancer http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1299698691 good "counter" but not enough.

                                                Omniknight gets destroyed by Axe, if you're banking your play on an omniknight winning you a team fight vs an Axe you're going to lose.

                                                Timber is actually decent but again, a decent axe player knows this and won't take on a timber without the help of the team and still the lock down for timber does cause him issues.

                                                Zeus has been one of the most annoying heroes that I have faced as Axe, not a counter just really irritating but then again that is Zeus vs almost any other hero.

                                                Whoever mentioned brood and Ababdon, and huskar are either high as fuck or really bad at this game.

                                                sano

                                                  Huskar = strong against magical weak against physical, likes to be low hp
                                                  Axe = deals physical damage, kills low hp instantly

                                                  Such counter

                                                  Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                    OK, at least five people said I was wrong in my post above. Only one (1) person actually provided one (1) argument.

                                                    I DID say "...in the early laning phase...", which to me is lvl 1 to lvl 7-8.

                                                    Here is my arguments:

                                                    Dark Seer - ion shell win
                                                    Broodmother - dont skill spiderlings, invis+speed+healing = farm; lvl 6 = rape axe or out-zone him
                                                    Huskar - DoT win
                                                    Treant - hits harder then Axe, out heal/shield his helix
                                                    Razor - range+link+speed = rape
                                                    Storm (if mid lane) aoe+passive+bottle = rape
                                                    TA - range+splash=harass or out zone. Meld-nukes = out zone
                                                    SF - range+high damage = rape
                                                    Ursa - attack Axe with passive when creeps not around for helix = out zone
                                                    Abaddon - more right click dps then Axe due to passive. Shield counter helix.
                                                    Tide - you know this
                                                    PA - more right click DPS (blink strike) + evasion = rape axe when no creeps around if u wait untill he missed his call or something

                                                    sano

                                                      How is not skilling spiders a win
                                                      And how does evasion help PA against axe
                                                      Not to mention she gets rekt by blademail

                                                      sano

                                                        Oh you're normal skill ok

                                                        bum farto

                                                          Here is my (correct) counter arguments:

                                                          Darkseer - How early are you talking? When does Axe ever lane vs DS? Mid/late the Ion shell does nothing to Axe, and until late/mid DS and Axe will rarely actually come into contact with each other. Do you even play DS or know how the hero works?

                                                          Broodmother - Sure don't skill spiders, but I would personally back door your tower if I can see you're not skilling them. It can be tough to last hit under tower as brood and axe will get more farm in the long run even with your ult won't do that much (most back door axes go vanguard) with ult + possibly treads if you're lucky...you just don't have the damage to take out a farmed Axe.

                                                          Huskar - I mean do I really have to explain where this hero is bad vs Axe it should be blatantly obvious even for low skill players. Here's my all time winrate against huskar as axe in 80+ games

                                                          Treant - Yeah just no, battle hunger removes heal in about 5 seconds and continues doing damage after that, Culling blade pierces heal, spin pierces heal, and stout and natural durablity means treant won't do all that much to you past maybe 2-3 minutes in laning phase (if you're even laning)

                                                          I am just going to stop here cause this is a total waste of my time, you're envisioning some total jerk off scenarios where for some reason everyone is level 25 and six slotted where the Axe somehow magically has nothing. There are heroes that are better than others vs Axe and some you have mentioned but I would never attempt to solo them without superior farm or help from the team.

                                                          Depending on the nature of the lane Axe more often than not wins the majority of offlanes and mids which again you would only ever lane if the scenario suited this. Axe players usually can have a 7-9 minute blink dagger where most of the carries/supports you mentioned will have nothing that can take him on that early.

                                                          Like your arguements are just throwing out random words like "damage - hit = rape" but truth is very few of those heroes win in the average Axe players scenario.

                                                          "more right click dps then Axe due to passive. Shield counter helix." please don't open your mouth again before you do some follow up reading. Axe isn't a right clicker and the "shield" will literally protect from 1 of the 3-5 spins he will get on a Abadon in a creep wave which with a follow up Culling will directly kill him.

                                                          Amphotic Shield - 200 max dmg abosorbed
                                                          Axe Spin - 205 dmg

                                                          Where in the world is Aba going to have a level 4 shield 7 minutes in when Axe is level 7-8 and has a blink dagger.

                                                          ....just what the fuck!

                                                          Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                            sano >> dont judge the book by the cover. Now that I know how the sytem works i started a new account. Game number 3 was on high skill. Now i have 10-1 (win rating) and is still on high skill. The lost game was due to 4 noobs throwing the game (vs sniper void and ursa).

                                                            Cant you read? Axe dont have blade mail at lvl 1-7.

                                                            这回复被编辑过
                                                            bum farto

                                                              Knowing how the system works in order to get a better aesthetic title and know how to play the game correctly are entirely different things.

                                                              Axe doesn't need a blademail, in fact I have been against the item for the majority of my games and I will avoid it where absolutely possible and even then probably get it as a 3rd -4th item and not as a second after blink.

                                                              quity

                                                                a PA is pretty useless before level 6 as well. Evasion wont help against axe. But a well farmed PA can kill axe multiple times before gets tanky enough.

                                                                bum farto

                                                                  A well farmed PA can zone out and solo an Axe. How it works is I usually go in take aggro and will get out allowing the team to come do their thing and reengage and finish up. A good PA can actually follow you out of the fight and then you're screwed cause in a 1v1 and gets pretty wrecked by hard carries, he needs the team and or enemy creeps to get them down.

                                                                  If you're playing PA spam daggers on AXE when you're getting creeps then spam them on creeps when he is taking his. This keeps him at bay allowing you to farm, then allows you to take last hits while he is controlling the creep equilibrium.

                                                                  Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                                    Havoc Badger >> Interesting choice of words "know how to play the game correctly".
                                                                    Do you imply that there is only 1 way to play correctly? Ofc you dont. Dota is the most complex game i know - chess included.

                                                                    For example, my best build with PA include headress and no dagger untill around lvl 7.

                                                                    bum farto

                                                                      For example, my best build with PA include headress and no dagger untill around lvl 7.

                                                                      Which is why you remain in high, normal skill and will never pass higher than mid 3K, also another reason your "best build" has gotten you a smashing 38% winrate as PA and 0% winrate with headress

                                                                      http://www.dotabuff.com/players/214646746/items?date=&hero=phantom-assassin&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=&faction=&duration=&metric=used

                                                                      What a player!

                                                                      Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                                        Havoc Badger >> In my last thread i explained that I carry in games with people between 4k - 5k mmr. Friends on 4k gets happy when i come online since they know their lose streak now has ended.

                                                                        I can easily out-draft (at least some) people above 4k in captains mode.

                                                                        ---

                                                                        "your "best build" has gotten you a smashing 38% winrate as PA and 0% winrate with headress"

                                                                        LOL. Come on my friend. Start thinking. I have 0% winrate with headress because I sell it during the later phase of the game.
                                                                        Dont you agree that my KDA on 2.5 is good for a winrate on 38%? Im just bad at playing with players on normal skill. I need to play with people above 3.5k in order to be good.

                                                                        And these games with PA was in cm mode on normal skill. Which means that my team cant play the heroes i draft for them. And I draft ez heroes like shaman, ns, np, jugger, bs when i play PA.

                                                                        这回复被编辑过
                                                                        quity

                                                                          Lold at headdress and no dagger.
                                                                          You only buy headress if you are going to build mek, otherwise it's a waste of 10 lasthits. And the only reason not to skill dagger at lvl 1 is when enemy gets (chain)stunned at the first rune so you can kill him quick with your blink and chase him afterwards.
                                                                          I may be 1k, but there's a reason why people build certain items and the only reason you build headdress for is to be edgy it seems.

                                                                          bum farto

                                                                            ^ Are you claiming to be a secret 5K player?

                                                                            "I carry in games with people between 4k - 5k mmr. Friends on 4k gets happy when i come online since they know their lose streak now has ended."

                                                                            Or maybe because they get easier games and can fuck around? Also all of your friends are about 2.8-3.8 and very few of them peak over 4k

                                                                            .....perhaps your secret 5k group might want to put a little wager together against say, my 3k group?

                                                                            Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                                              If i remember correctly i have one friend on 5k, 3-4 on 4k-4.8k. One friend one 4k reported me and unfriended me since i bought phase+treads+headress on PA :D. That was after we played like 20-30 games. The game before this i carried with Undying.

                                                                              "Or maybe because they get easier games and can fuck around?" Valid point but I dont think that is what happens. You can check my very high skill games and see if it seems like it.

                                                                              I dont know what wager means.

                                                                              Also, I did win 50 year beast games. Lost maybe 10. That should mean something even if it is pay to win?

                                                                              这回复被编辑过
                                                                              MOA KIKUCHI ASTRALIS

                                                                                wow arguing with normal skills with such enthusiasm much amaze

                                                                                bum farto

                                                                                  A friendly bet, you seem to be under a very strong delusion that you're as good as 4-5k players or even better. I would like to take you up on that by playing against you with a group of 3K players.

                                                                                  Im the Bully of my School

                                                                                    vh skill = the elite
                                                                                    high skill = meh bad too
                                                                                    normal skill = peasants

                                                                                    Havoc is right and ur wrong if ur mmr is bad! period.

                                                                                    Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                                                      .Kittyminati >> OK, i let you show if you can think for your self or only copy what the pros are doing...
                                                                                      Why is it good to buy a headress on a carry and never upgrade it to meka?

                                                                                      Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                                                        Havoc Badger >> Why not 1v1 mid? I get to ban two heroes and you get to ban two heroes.

                                                                                        Im The Bully Of My School >> I like your style of arguing ;). You conviced me!

                                                                                        And we play it like it was normal 1v1 matchmaking = 2 kills or tower down.

                                                                                        这回复被编辑过
                                                                                        bum farto

                                                                                          You claim to be able to outdraft people and carry 4-5k people, I would like the opportunity to see this. I have no interest in playing a 1v1 with anyone much less someone in normal skill.

                                                                                          sano

                                                                                            VH skill != elite, you get VH games at 3.8k

                                                                                            Also what the fuck is a PA with headress, that item pretty much only gives you regen which you can get from a ring or lifesteal and much better

                                                                                            Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                                                              Btw, what MMR range is high skill?

                                                                                              jus chillen

                                                                                                ^maybe headreass on a carry is never good if you don't upgrade it into meka?

                                                                                                sano

                                                                                                  I'd gladly play 1v1 against you but our time zones are a bit too different and 250 ping is way too annoying

                                                                                                  jus chillen

                                                                                                    3200 is highskill, so actually not that high.

                                                                                                    sano

                                                                                                      High skill is 3.2 to 3.8

                                                                                                      Lyralei (swe / 32 yrs) <3

                                                                                                        Well, im up for almost any challange.